TTMB Podcast

We welcomed our coworker Andy onto the pod and we had so much fun! From nerding out about brass to talking about Buddhism we covered a lot of ground. He shared his experience becoming a professional French horn player, and then leaving that behind to adopt a healthier relationship with music and life. We really appreciated Andy's candid and sense of humor, and we think you will to. Let us know what you think!

Full Transcript

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You know, when you hear a song
and it triggers a memory, it

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instantly takes you back to a
particular person or place or

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moment.
This podcast is all about that

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song and those memories.
Welcome to That Takes Me Back,

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where we share stories that
connect music and memories.

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We're your hosts.
Kellen, David.

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And Maya Sage and on today's
episode.

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I was supposed to be meditating.
Smiles.

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Bunny designated call.
Me.

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He was supposed to bring the
Zen.

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The real Zen was inside us all
along.

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Maybe the Zen is the friends we
made along the way.

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We had Andy on the podcast.
Our wonderful coworker.

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Yeah, and we approached him
because we knew that he was a

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funny dude and just so
approachable and, and smart and,

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and a.
Lover of music?

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And a lover of music.
Yes, thank you.

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And he delivered.
Yeah.

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And I do remember that when we
asked him to come on the

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podcast, he said yes with almost
0 information about what the

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podcast was even about.
Right.

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Actually, he was very just like,
yeah.

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I'll do it.
Yeah, totally win.

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Yeah, which was my expectation.
Well, I thought that was

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surprising but cool, and he
brought us a very funny and

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moving memory.
That related a lot to.

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His journey becoming a
professional musician and then

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changing that career completely
into working at the library and

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sort of leaving music behind in
a way to where now he only plays

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it for fun.
Yeah.

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And it's cool because, you know,
it's not expressed as like a

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loss really.
You know, it's just expressed as

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like a different chapter in this
life.

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Absolutely.
Part of that, I think, is he's

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so Zen.
Yeah.

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Because he's a Buddhist.
Yeah, he hosts meditation

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groups, which you'll hear about
in the podcast.

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He kind of plugs his little
website, so stay tuned for that.

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And I just want to say that some
of the things we had to cut out

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of the episode were really
awesome.

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We we're nerding out a lot about
brass instruments and the French

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horn and music in general, and
you should go over to our

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Patreon and check out the Uncut
episode if you're interested in

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that.
I actually totally want to check

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it out because I don't remember
that conversation and I bet it

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is really good for me.
This was an interview in which I

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laughed so much it which was
expected because Andy is funny,

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but it was also an interview
that went into some dark places.

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You know, the the memories that
was conjured from this music

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brought him back to some pretty
low points in his life.

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And I think that it speaks
somewhat to his character and

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also just like the the
atmosphere that we offer on the

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podcast to, you know, that it
led to such an open and honest

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conversation that had a lot of
humor in it.

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Yeah.
As well as, you know, talking

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about those dark places.
It was awesome.

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It was an absolute joy.
Yeah, it was just so great.

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We're so grateful for Andy for
coming on the podcast.

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Yeah, totally.
And just and revealing the dark

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underbelly of the French horn
circuit.

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Yeah, Wind ensemble, that's.
The right.

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Yes, the nitty gritty details of
the wind ensemble.

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Right.
You heard it here, folks.

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Yep.
Well, I suppose it's about time

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to introduce our guests, OK.
Yeah, that would be great.

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So, Andy, thanks for being here.
Would you mind telling us a

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little bit about yourself?
All right.

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Hello.
I'm Andy.

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I am a colleague of these two at
the library.

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Yeah.
Shout out to Mesa County

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libraries.
Yeah, I've worked there with

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them.
I have a previous career as a

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musician.
I grew up in Iowa.

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Let's see what else I am married
to another one of your

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colleagues, Andrea, who works at
the library as well.

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And we have two cats, zero kids
and two strollers, which I think

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is an important addition to, to
share with you.

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Yeah, we met at the library and
we've been together for several

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years now, I think 8 together.
Wow.

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Yeah.
So yeah, it's that's a little

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bit about me.
I am a Zen.

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Like I practice Zen Buddhism and
accidentally run a Zen center

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out of our house.
That's really cool.

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Yeah, but but you create a vibe.
We do, yeah, we do create a vibe

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and we do like, follow some kind
of ceremonial things that are

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neat.
Like I think they're neat.

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There's some chanting that we do
in Japanese.

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There's like incense and stuff.
But at its core, yeah, it's just

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the practice of meditation is
just an individual thing that

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everybody does.
It's just kind of nice to have

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like the the rituals and stuff.
Yeah, definitely.

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Are you open to new members?
Absolutely.

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GJ zen.org.
I even have a website.

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That's really cool.
Yeah, so but the, the guy that

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the, the actual Japanese teacher
that, you know, taught the

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people who taught me was an
official like person from, you

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know, Shinji, which is the head
temple of this type of Rinzai

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Zen in Japan.
So it'd be like thumbs up from

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the Pope.
That would be crazy.

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Yeah, I mean, he wasn't the
Pope.

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I'm not trying to say that.
But no but.

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He was operating in in like 2
thumbs up.

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Anyway, yeah, we can cut that
part.

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That was weird but but anyway it
was it was sanctioned by

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Miyoshinji.
No, that's actually awesome.

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That was really cool.
Very cool.

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Well, thanks for being here.
Oh yeah, that's what we were

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talking about.
Yeah, that you're.

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You got a little far afield.
See how that happens.

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It's perfect.
Yeah.

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Yeah.
And thank you for mentioning

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that.
Actually, Buddhism was one of

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the things I started dabbling in
in high school when I started

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searching for spirituality, and
it was one of the only ones that

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actually became useful for me
and helpful for me for years.

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So.
Yep, I mean my story is similar.

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I was in high school and I had
to do a presentation about world

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religions or something.
And I had, I was one of those

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like high school atheists.
I'm like I, I went to the, I, I

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grew up Methodist and 'cause we
went, my parents wanted me to go

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to church and everything, and I
went through confirmation.

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'Cause it was.
Important to my mom and I like

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never went back and it was like
one of those little grouchy

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teenaged atheists.
Totally, totally.

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And then in, I don't know, in
college, I guess when the

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Internet was like still a
reliable resource or a way to

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reach other reliable resources,
I remember asking the Internet

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about like, why is there
suffering?

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Wow, Yeah, that's.
So sweet.

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And I, I the answer from
Buddhism was very intriguing to

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me.
And so I actually went on a

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retreat in 2009 for the first
time.

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And it was, I was wildly
unprepared, but it was really

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fascinating.
And ever since, I've been kind

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of involved in one way or
another.

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And then in 2017, I started
practicing here with this group

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and got into Zen.
So yeah, there you go.

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That is awesome.
That is awesome, and there are

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definitely aspects of Buddhism
that I have carried with me as

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well, and the idea of letting go
of attachment has been really

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powerful in my own life.
Agreed.

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Yeah, because that the argument
is that that's sort of the

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origin of suffering is we're
attached to the way that we want

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things to be.
And so when things are not that

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way, then we suffer versus if we
can accept things as they are,

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then you can find some sort of
freedom and joy in that.

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Which isn't to say like, I don't
think it teaches like

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acquiescence to things that are.
Are don't don't try.

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Yeah, but it's more like, OK,
right now things are this way,

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and I might wish that they were
different, but they aren't.

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And so how do I, you know, live
in the fullness of this moment

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as best I can?
Word.

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Yeah, yeah.
Wow.

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Thank you.
And.

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So we could do music history, we
could do Zen, Yeah.

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We could do anywhere we.
Could probably do karate you.

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Could have a lot to talk.
About I think everybody's like

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that though.
Like if you if you find the

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right thing, everybody's got
that.

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OK, well for our little ice
breaker, I don't know how much

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this is going to break the ice,
but I honestly have just been

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dying to chat with you a little
bit about about a brouch

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instruments.
I heard you play.

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What do you play?
I play well played, I guess.

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Is it past tense?
Is it present tense?

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That's a whole like,
philosophically.

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Can play.
But I was a French horn player.

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That's what I did, Yeah.
I was a professional French horn

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player.
Actually.

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That was my career before I got
into the library.

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Oh wow, yeah.
What?

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Yep, that's what I did.
I, that's what I went to school

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for.
That's what I did for, oh, not

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exactly 10 years, but like close
to 10 years.

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OK, so that is certainly not in
the past tense, though in the

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sense of like you, if I handed
you a French horn right now, you

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could you could probably do some
cool shit.

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On it I mean, I could make some
sound whether they were.

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Well, it just so happens.
Like, well, live fire exercise.

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Everybody hears.
No, just kidding.

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Yes, I, I still have mine and
it's, we have a little music

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corner at home.
It's a free Craigslist piano

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that I get tuned once a year.
And then I've got my horn on top

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of that.
I have a shakahachi flute.

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I have a bugle and a cornet.
Oh.

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Wow.
You know, just kind of things

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that you collect over time.
Totally.

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Everybody collects bugles and
pianos.

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I know, right?
My favorite part about the free

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piano was that it was a free
piano that they delivered to me.

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That is handy because pianos are
so.

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Pianos are heavy.
All they probably really needed

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to get rid of it.
They must have cause Yeah, well,

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when when we got our house, it
was like the first piece of

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furniture that went into our
house.

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Yeah, wow, yeah, You basically
can't give a piano away.

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You sure can try.
Yeah, right.

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Yeah.
And then like saps like me will

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buy it.
And then I don't know what I'm

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gonna do if I ever have to do
anything with it.

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Yeah.
But yeah, that was that is I was

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a professional French horn
player.

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I played professionally in Iowa,
Nebraska and Kansas, and here I

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was actually the principal horn
of the Symphony here for a

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couple of seasons.
Wow.

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And then I kind of hung it up in
2016.

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I was just like, I don't know,
the the time had come to do to

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focus on other things.
Yeah.

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So it, I haven't really played
since then.

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It's still there.
It still looks at me.

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And once in a while if I need to
annoy my cats.

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So as as a professionally we're
playing orchestras and

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symphonies.
Yeah, orchestras, opera pits,

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musicals, sometimes like even
community bands that would pay.

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Like, that was my very first
summer supporting myself as a

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musician was just three
community bands.

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Like in Iowa, there's a actually
like a tax that funds community

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bands, something like that.
I'd have to do some research.

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But yes, there's a couple of
famous band people from Iowa

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that if you're a band person
you'll know, like Carl King is

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from Iowa anyway, so some of the
the bigger municipal bands will

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pay you to play so.
That was my. 1st in like 2007

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when I was in college supporting
myself by playing.

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So will you tell me who's
ignorant to what a community

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band is?
Absolutely, yeah.

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So think about like your high
school band, you know, learning

227
00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:56,120
that saxophone, trombones,
trumpets, the whole deal.

228
00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,960
It's like that.
It's usually of a slightly

229
00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,520
higher quality.
Well, it depends.

230
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,960
If it's paying, it's usually
slightly higher quality.

231
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,680
If it is not, it's just adults
who are interested in continuing

232
00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:08,920
to.
Play a rec league.

233
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,360
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
A rec league and we have one

234
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,640
here, The Centennial Band here
in Grand Junction.

235
00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,760
Oh yeah, I have heard of that.
Is an adult community band and

236
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,440
yeah, it's.
But like, sometimes they need a

237
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,560
French horn exactly, so they'll
seek that out for whatever

238
00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:25,360
piece, OK?
The other nice thing about

239
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,680
French horn is it works in band
and an orchestra, right?

240
00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:30,760
Like saxophone.
You don't usually see that in an

241
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:31,400
orchestra.
Right.

242
00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,600
With some exceptions that we can
get into later.

243
00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,080
But in general, yeah, you only
see a saxophone in a concert

244
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:39,760
band.
Wow.

245
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,520
Or a jazz band where you don't
see French horns very often.

246
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:44,920
Oh really?
Yeah, for some reason I could

247
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:46,760
see French horn getting jazzy,
but.

248
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,800
That was, it was also a fun gig.
I played in a what, like 50s

249
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:55,080
themed Christmas orchestra for a
couple seasons travelling around

250
00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:59,160
Iowa and you know, it'd be like
50s jazz standards, 40s big band

251
00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,600
stuff, but all the Christmas
songs and that was very fun.

252
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,120
Wow, that sounds like a lot of
fun.

253
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,120
That's cool.
I actually figured you were just

254
00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,840
going to say like, yeah, I'd do
some stuff, play some brass on

255
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,040
the side.
I had no idea you'd had a

256
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,680
full-fledged.
Like a legit career.

257
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:17,400
Well, legit awesome.
Strong.

258
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,160
Word, but hey.
You, you fed yourself.

259
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,080
Yes, I did.
As about as legit as it gets in

260
00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,760
my book.
Right, so so why French horn?

261
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,400
That's a great question.
So I started on clarinet.

262
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,040
I, I wanted to start on oboe and
my band director was like, Nope,

263
00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,480
we do not do that.
In retrospect, he was correct.

264
00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,520
But I was like, OK, well, the
clarinet sort of looks like an

265
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,520
oboe, so I'm going to, I'm going
to do that.

266
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:46,560
And this was probably like,
middle school, yeah.

267
00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:48,840
This is like fifth grade.
I think 5th grade is when we

268
00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:56,640
started and then in high school,
I moved in my sophomore year and

269
00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,640
the new school that I moved to
had a really good band program,

270
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,120
but not enough French horn
players.

271
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,800
And so the the director was
like, hey, do you want to play

272
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,120
the marching French horn for
marching band?

273
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,200
That was how it started.
And the marching French horn is

274
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,880
called a mellophone and it looks
just like a fat trumpet.

275
00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,080
You play it just like a trumpet.
It doesn't really have anything

276
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,840
to do with the French horn other
than like the the range of low

277
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,880
to high that it plays.
So I started playing that.

278
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,680
I'm like, wow, I can play so
much louder than I could play on

279
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,080
the clarinet.
And then he was like, hey, do

280
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,600
you want to, he being my band
director was like, hey, do you

281
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,720
want to play this during the
school year, during the regular,

282
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,200
the band season?
And I said yes.

283
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:42,440
And I got really into it.
And then, yeah.

284
00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,280
So I grew up in Iowa and I
played in, like, a youth

285
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,160
Symphony then after a couple
years.

286
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:49,000
And.
Yeah.

287
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,320
And then the story that I tell
about how I actually went to

288
00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,440
college for music was that I was
not going to go to college for

289
00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:00,120
music at all.
I had filled out this lengthy

290
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,640
application for a humanity
scholarship, and it needed a

291
00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,080
stamp of approval for my
guidance counselor.

292
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,280
So I turned in the packet to him
and I waited to hear, and I

293
00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,440
never heard anything.
So I went in to talk to him one

294
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,560
day and he was like, oh, yeah,
have a seat.

295
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,120
And he moved a stack of papers
and there was my application,

296
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,240
unsent.
So I did not get the humanity

297
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,280
scholarship I was going for.
And now it was March of my

298
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,840
senior year of high school.
So I thought, well, crap, what

299
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,280
else?
What else do I do that can

300
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,960
generate some money?
And so I initially went to Drake

301
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,800
University, which is a small
private school in Des Moines,

302
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,360
and I wanted to go there for
other things.

303
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,160
But then I went and did an
audition to try and get some

304
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,280
money, you know, to go to like,
oh, they'll pay you if you play

305
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,760
a a rarer instrument to like,
participate.

306
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:55,000
They apparently had not had a
French horn major in like 15

307
00:15:55,000 --> 00:16:02,400
years, so they basically hired
318 year olds to come be their

308
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,920
French horn players.
So the year that I started

309
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:10,200
college was 2004 and there were
three French horn majors.

310
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:11,640
Wow.
Yeah.

311
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,680
Anyway, so that's a that's a
long answer to that question,

312
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:15,360
but.
Yeah, like you.

313
00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,080
So what you're saying is you
kind of accidentally went to

314
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:19,880
college for music.
Yes, 100.

315
00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,320
Percent.
It was 100% an accident.

316
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,480
Wow, wow.
And then small world even more.

317
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,240
The guy that recruited me for
College in Iowa is now the

318
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,080
trombone professor here at
Colorado Mesa.

319
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,520
Oh wow.
Shout out Doctor Flanagan.

320
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,320
Very cool.
It's a wildly small world.

321
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,920
That is really weird, actually.
Yeah, Wow.

322
00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,720
So were your parents happy that
you chose such a loud

323
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:48,040
instrument?
No, no, I remember I wasn't

324
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,360
allowed to practice while
Murder, She Wrote was on.

325
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,360
Yeah, you can't really.
Yeah, I was going to say that

326
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:55,560
you could.
You could probably make it more

327
00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:57,440
suspenseful.
I could definitely make it

328
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,720
louder.
But yeah, they, they were very

329
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:03,280
supportive.
You know, they came to all.

330
00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,839
I think my mom actually got more
nervous than I ever did.

331
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,800
So she would have to sometimes,
like, wait out in the hall.

332
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,160
Oh wow, yeah.
Especially for those like solo

333
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:19,359
recital type situation.
Please pardon this interruption,

334
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,640
we just wanted to encourage you
to follow us on whatever

335
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,839
podcasting platform you use.
It helps others discover our

336
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:29,160
show.
You can look forward to a new

337
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,600
episode on the 1st of the month
every month.

338
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,920
If you want to hear an uncut
interview two weeks early, join

339
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,480
our Patreon.
Now back to your regular

340
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:43,920
scheduled programming.
That's one of the things that I

341
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,680
loved about the idea of this
podcast when you were telling me

342
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,880
about it initially.
It's like, oh, man, music is so

343
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:53,360
powerful and it will open, You
know, it'll it, it can take you

344
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:56,560
right back to wherever you were
when you first heard it or

345
00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,480
whatever, Give you the
soundtrack to something that was

346
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,280
important in your life.
Yeah.

347
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,120
Absolutely fantastic.
Which wow, what a segue.

348
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:10,160
Thank you, because Andy, will
you tell us what song you

349
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:15,000
brought for us today?
Yes, so I brought to you from

350
00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,160
the Russian composer Igor
Stravinsky.

351
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,480
One of his more famous pieces is
called the Firebird and the

352
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,360
Bursus and Finale from the
Firebird.

353
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,160
The whole Firebird suite is
worth a listen if you're into

354
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,920
classical music and it's fairly
accessible.

355
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,840
It's like not long and boring
and what not.

356
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,720
Like, I'm going to be honest
with you, I think Mozart's

357
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:41,040
great, but like, I don't want to
listen to that for fun most of

358
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,160
the time.
But like the Firebird, there's

359
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,120
parts in there where you're
like, oh, Dang.

360
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,600
And at some point I'll have to
tell you about the time

361
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,720
Stravinsky caused a riot with
his ballet music.

362
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,120
I.
Feel like I've vaguely heard of

363
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:55,720
that.
You probably have, but the

364
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,720
Firebird was another ballet.
So Stravinsky was Russian, but

365
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,360
he had to flee Russia in the
early 20th century when the

366
00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:05,600
revolutions were happening and
he ended up in Paris.

367
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,760
And when he was living in Paris,
he worked with a choreographer

368
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:14,200
at the the Paris Ballet and
wrote a bunch of music for them.

369
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,840
And so this period of
Stravinsky's life, he wrote

370
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:22,280
three main ballet pieces based
on like Russian folk themes.

371
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,440
The big The big famous one that
people have probably heard of is

372
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,120
The Rite of Spring.
That's the one that had the riot

373
00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:31,080
at its premiere.
OK, the.

374
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,200
Firebird I would say is the
second most famous and I cannot

375
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,440
even remember what the third one
is so clearly.

376
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,560
But yeah, the bursus and finale.
Every single thing.

377
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:44,000
Which version is it?
Yeah, 'cause there's like a 1918

378
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,160
version and a 1930 something
version.

379
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,360
Let me check.
So I, I typed in Bursus and I

380
00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:53,760
think we want to do the 1919
version Bursus and finale.

381
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,000
The Bursus is sort of a very
chill, almost like a lullaby.

382
00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:02,080
And then it leads into this,
spoiler alert, one of the

383
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:03,840
greatest French horn solos of
all time.

384
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,720
It's very short, but it's very
poignant.

385
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:11,160
And to me, so yeah, pursues
leads into the finale and then

386
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,840
it it ends powerfully.
So it's a bit of a long journey,

387
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:15,640
but it's it's worth it in my
opinion.

388
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,480
That's OK, let's take.
Let's take.

389
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:18,760
A little journey.
Excellent.

390
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,400
So if you can picture it, the
year is 2007.

391
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,680
I'm there.
The world is a different place

392
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:36,240
that my college orchestra was on
tour to Chicago.

393
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,560
We were doing like a recruiting
trip and we were playing this,

394
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:46,160
this piece, the Firebird Suite.
And I, I, I can just like I'm

395
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,680
vividly transported back to our
rehearsals.

396
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,720
And my friend Angela Starin was
the bassoon player playing.

397
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,760
This is a English Horner oboe,
but the lower version when it

398
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:03,640
comes in, that's bassoon.
And it's just like, there was no

399
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,200
romantic connection.
But I definitely fell in love

400
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,640
with her while she was playing
Wow like.

401
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,680
Like a snake getting charmed,
yeah.

402
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,840
So you know how they say things
like, you know, I have a work

403
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:54,560
wife.
So was she sort of your?

404
00:21:54,880 --> 00:22:00,520
She was your orchestra wife.
Sure, she was my Firebird

405
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,880
bassoon crush.
I mean, we all have one.

406
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:10,280
You know, there are some
universal experiences, but and

407
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:14,200
you know, one of the things that
I remember from college is I

408
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,480
always felt all of my feelings
so like so much.

409
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,360
Absolutely.
Now I'm 40 and it's like

410
00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:23,000
everything has calmed down quite
a bit, kind of accidentally,

411
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,720
which thank goodness.
Maybe it's all that Zen.

412
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,360
Yeah, I don't know if it is
accidentally like weren't you

413
00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:31,640
kind of searching for something?
I was.

414
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,440
Trying to chill out a little
bit, yeah.

415
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,120
But like back then when, when I
was on tour with this, like, I

416
00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:40,080
just remember like kind of
feeling like my chest was going

417
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,720
to explode because of how much
like feeling like there's no

418
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,280
French horn in this, by the way,
until we're almost there, but

419
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,440
until the finale starts and.
So you just were.

420
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,360
I was just like sitting there
waiting and like falling in love

421
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:58,960
and just like feeling like this
warm blanket of sound.

422
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,520
I think I see your fingers
remembering.

423
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,400
Yep, they sure do.
And I still got goosebumps too.

424
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,680
Wow.
Yeah, it's beautiful.

425
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,000
It really is.
What is it about the French horn

426
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,160
that does that to you?
Get a.

427
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:53,640
Little Harp going in, just a
second, man, it's so good.

428
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,920
I think this is making me
realize that the Lord of the

429
00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,720
Rings soundtrack has a lot of
French horn.

430
00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:02,840
Is that true?
Yes, I think Star Wars has some

431
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,680
French horn ET.
Pretty much any movie soundtrack

432
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,000
is going to have some really
great French horn stuff.

433
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,120
It can be a really dramatic
sounding instrument.

434
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,920
I wonder if it carries a lot of
nostalgia for me accidentally

435
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,680
because of that, that I didn't
even realize right now because I

436
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,760
heard that and I was like.
I did.

437
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,360
I kind of was just taken back to
Tatooine to.

438
00:24:24,200 --> 00:26:37,180
Win some theme.
Oh my God.

439
00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:40,580
That was so cool.
Yeah, it there was a journey in

440
00:26:40,580 --> 00:26:41,260
there.
Yeah.

441
00:26:41,860 --> 00:26:45,620
So yeah, imagine you're like
early to mid 20s and just like

442
00:26:45,620 --> 00:26:48,580
everything feels enormous and
then you're playing this music

443
00:26:48,580 --> 00:26:51,440
that is just like ripping here
your.

444
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,560
Guts out so, so it takes me
back.

445
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,840
Even as you're sitting there
waiting for your part, you're

446
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,120
just feeling it.
Yeah.

447
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:04,080
And like, you know, in Zen, you
are trying to enter this sort of

448
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,200
peaceful flow state with
everything.

449
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,440
And that's about as close as I
can imagine getting into.

450
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,880
Like you cannot.
I could not think of another

451
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,920
situation where I was more in
the moment than being just

452
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:23,520
hanging on every second of all
of that, that music leading up

453
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,800
to the the horn solo.
And then like, yeah, anyway, so

454
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,080
it's very, very present.
And it's very present with this

455
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:37,280
full emotional spectrum.
So I know you've been a musician

456
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,760
and are a musician and I, it
sounds like you have some

457
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,680
experience with that too.
You know, when you're when

458
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,280
you're engaging with an
audience, right, you're just

459
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:51,720
emoting so much and you are
trying to get that back from the

460
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,280
audience a little bit.
And that's something that I

461
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,360
remember from this like tour.
It wasn't that the high school

462
00:27:57,360 --> 00:28:00,120
kids were like that into it
because it's like it's classical

463
00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:05,120
music and I get it.
But the orchestra, like when we

464
00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:09,320
were rehearsing, we were so into
it and we were all like, the

465
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,120
communication in the ensemble
was amazing.

466
00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:15,360
Like you know and you knew
everybody, like you partied with

467
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:16,520
all these.
Yeah, you went.

468
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,760
To class with all these people
and like you played in multiple

469
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,240
things and so like, you know, I
knew the bassoon player and she

470
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,240
was like sitting right there and
I knew the guy playing tuba and

471
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:31,120
he was like right back in right.
So it's all of you are so

472
00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:34,520
present together because
everybody's hanging on to every

473
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:39,720
note and everybody's like
keeping the time and like even

474
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,440
just the fact that you're all
physically in that space

475
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,360
together and the vibrations of
the all the instruments are

476
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,120
hitting you in real time
together.

477
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:52,880
Like I can totally see how that
is a moment of flow, but not

478
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,240
just alone, right?
Like you by necessity.

479
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,760
Yeah, it's sort of a camaraderie
to the absolutely to the Max.

480
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,360
Absolutely become almost like 1
Organism.

481
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,240
You're all working.
Yeah, it's.

482
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,520
There to produce.
I love that Maya brought up

483
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,840
vibration because that's
literally what it is, is

484
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,480
vibration.
But then we also talk about

485
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,400
vibration as, you know, sort of
more of like a metaphorical

486
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,080
thing to be on the same page,
you know, same.

487
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,600
We're we're like sort of, you
know, operating on the same

488
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,120
vibrate.
Exactly.

489
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,760
Yeah, we're operating on the on
the same wavelength.

490
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,560
And but you literally are you.
Literally are.

491
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,280
And yeah, it's just, it's
remarkable.

492
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,920
And you're giving so much of
yourself to to what you're doing

493
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,400
as well, 'cause like, the other
thing about studying music is

494
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,400
that it's not always healthy,
'cause you put a lot of your

495
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,560
worth as a person into how good
you are doing.

496
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,960
So that makes for some like
things that you have to unlearn

497
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,000
later in your life.
Absolutely, I can see that.

498
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,640
It makes for a very, very
powerful experience.

499
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,880
Yeah, so, so that song in
particular, the, it has so much

500
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,760
patience to it.
And, and in a way, like you

501
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,440
sitting there waiting for your
part as exemplifying that

502
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,040
patience because, you know, we
didn't hear a, a timpani once

503
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,080
until, you know, right at the
end, basically.

504
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:18,120
And so you weren't the only one
who was just sitting there for a

505
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,920
while and then your part
actually came along before other

506
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,160
people's dead.
And yeah, it's just interesting

507
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,200
how those relationships sort of
play out between the

508
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,880
instruments.
And I wonder if those

509
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:37,880
relationships played out beyond
the music. 100% they did.

510
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:39,640
Yeah.
And that's the other fascinating

511
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,920
thing about being in an
orchestra, is that especially

512
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,640
like a a school ensemble,
college or high school, you,

513
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,840
you're with these people like
all the time.

514
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,000
And so like, we were on tour,
right?

515
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,400
We were in Chicago, which is
this big city for us, like small

516
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,680
Midwestern kids totally staying
at a hotel down on the Miracle

517
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,800
Mile.
And like, it was, you know,

518
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,000
walking up to the Lyric Opera,
but then, like, stopping at

519
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,960
every bar on the way back to the
hotel.

520
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,120
All right.
Like you'd be, you'd be

521
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:14,080
literally like eating, hanging
out with, practicing with, you

522
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,440
know, arguing with or whatever
these people.

523
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,080
And then you would have all of
that going on.

524
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,600
And then also in addition, you
know, trying to produce this

525
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,680
like, beautiful work of art with
people that you like, love and

526
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,160
hate.
Totally, because there's always

527
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:33,840
all of that happening.
Right.

528
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:38,040
So please please pardon this
movie quote but this one time at

529
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,000
band camp.
Sure, right.

530
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,120
Of course.
Allison Hannigan, who I prefer

531
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,840
from her role, is Willow, Yeah.
Definitely.

532
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:52,760
Yeah, I think that like music
kids, I at least was a very pro

533
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,920
party music kid.
Like we I lived in the party

534
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:57,960
house, so you wouldn't think the
music department would have a

535
00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:59,560
party house.
But no, no, no, I can.

536
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:01,960
See it?
That's hilarious just because of

537
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,840
the reputation musicians have to
be partiers.

538
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,520
But I guess but you're talking
about.

539
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,640
Bands like and.
Orchestral Orchestral musicians.

540
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,520
Well, and I just, to me, that
makes all the sense in the world

541
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,520
because like, maybe like, you
know, in high school, they

542
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,280
weren't the ones to be at the
parties that other people were

543
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:19,720
throwing.
But as soon as they have their

544
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,160
people and and they're in
college, they're going to have,

545
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,280
they've created that space where
they can let loose.

546
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,160
Absolutely, yeah.
And and like you said, there's

547
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:29,680
no band without the other
people.

548
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,840
And so you're you're there with
them.

549
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,040
And the fact is that there's all
kinds of people and all kinds of

550
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:36,440
things.
And so you're going to find the

551
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:37,920
party people.
Absolutely.

552
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,240
Well, and you know, I keep going
back to the emotional intensity,

553
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:46,080
but like, that's what you're and
it's like what your ensemble

554
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,280
directors, your conductors are
trying to draw out of you is

555
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,760
this emotional engagement.
But then when you're like, you

556
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:57,840
know, 22, it's like you've like
you've been lit on fire and like

557
00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,840
you're lighting up the thing
that you're supposed to light

558
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,720
up, but you're also like.
Burning down.

559
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,680
Every.
So there's.

560
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,000
All of this, like, for me
anyway, it was all of this like

561
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,080
this passion just about being a
human being.

562
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,800
Oh my gosh, yeah.
It would find some way out.

563
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,280
Yeah.
Like, ideally it would find its

564
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,520
way out through musical
expression, which is sometimes

565
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,120
the case.
But other times, just like we're

566
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,480
going to have 150 people come
over for the marching band party

567
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,200
and we're going to get the cops
called on us at 3:00 in the

568
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,560
morning because there's a jazz
combo playing in your living

569
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:29,720
room.
Oh.

570
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,600
My God, that.
Is awesome, no regrets.

571
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,120
No, of course not.
That is so cool.

572
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:40,200
So is there a particular moment
or memory that that we can talk

573
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,920
about like at a party?
Yeah, well, we can talk about

574
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,400
the jazz combo and the living.
Let's do that actually.

575
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,160
Sounds like a great story.
Yeah, so I was friends with all

576
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,840
these fantastic musicians who
were really into jazz, right?

577
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,200
And jazz is this fantastic art
form.

578
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:01,000
So let me back up a little bit.
What I was really good at was

579
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,320
doing what was written on the
page well.

580
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:11,080
And, and that is its own skill,
but in jazz, very little is

581
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,679
written down.
It's all in your in your ears

582
00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:17,840
and in your mind and in your
heart and then whatever happens.

583
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,560
And I always found that
extremely intimidating.

584
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,639
But a lot of my close friends
were very into that.

585
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,040
So I had a lot of friends who
were jazz musicians.

586
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,320
And so we did.
The house that I lived at, we

587
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,080
hosted all these parties.
So it was a four or five

588
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,719
bedroom, 2 story with a full
basement that had previously

589
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,080
been apartments that had now
been recombined.

590
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,719
It was a house and it was
apartments and it was back to a

591
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,440
house.
But fortunately there was a back

592
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,440
set of stairs upstairs that
exited the house.

593
00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:55,480
So the jazz combo sets up in our
living in our like, dining room

594
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,960
basically, and they're playing.
And I think our neighbors had

595
00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,600
finally had enough.
Wow.

596
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,440
Our neighbor across the street
was a church.

597
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,640
Yeah, so drums.
Yep, the whole shebang.

598
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:09,400
Let's see, we had this was drum.
It was an interesting mix.

599
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,240
It was drums, Alto and Berry
saxophone.

600
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:15,160
Nice.
And trombone.

601
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:15,800
Oh.
Cool.

602
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,640
It was a trio called Executive
Lunch.

603
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,160
Yeah.
And I am still in touch with two

604
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:24,920
of the three people that were in
that.

605
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,040
We actually have a Halloween
text thread where we send

606
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,920
werewolf bar mitzvah from 30
Rock to each other every

607
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,320
Halloween.
Anyway, it's neither here nor

608
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,280
there, but yeah, Evan, Mike and
Jacob were the guys.

609
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,200
And.
And so they were playing in our

610
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:41,680
living room.
And I think our neighbors

611
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,080
finally got tired of it and the
police showed up.

612
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,120
And the way it worked at at our
party house was that one of the

613
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,280
four of us that lived there
would be sober at each party,

614
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:51,880
would rotate.
Smart.

615
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,880
So that if something something
happened or somebody needed to

616
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,400
be a responsible adult, there
was someone there who could

617
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,720
drive and who could do whatever.
Well, it was my night to be the

618
00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:03,440
the Sober 1.
So I got to go interface with

619
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,880
the police and showed up with a
noise complaint and I, I recall

620
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:12,440
distinctly shouting to everyone,
go out the back stairs, I'll

621
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,560
meet you at Pablo's in 1/2 an
hour.

622
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,000
Pablo's is a burrito place right
down the road.

623
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,960
And so then I went out front and
was chatting with the police.

624
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,800
So everybody else escaped out
the back of the house.

625
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,360
So I just, I just, it's
disappointing to me that the

626
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,080
trombone player didn't go wah
wah wah.

627
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,080
You know, he very well might
have, but at that point I was

628
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,400
too stressed out about the cops
to be listening to.

629
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:39,600
Yeah.
Well, yeah, well.

630
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,160
Imagine trying to tell the cops
no, I swear we're being quiet

631
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,160
and then you hear from the
living room.

632
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,080
But it was funny because, you
know, during the day, all of us

633
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:50,160
that lived there were music
people.

634
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,920
And we actually turned this
little tiny room into a practice

635
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,600
room.
So like, we were always playing

636
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,840
music there.
But it it, it's one thing, I

637
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,520
think it like, you know, 4:45 in
the afternoon and then two in

638
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:02,880
the morning.
It's a different animal.

639
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,280
But yeah, it's just, I can
distinctly remember that the the

640
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,880
police showing up and everybody
running out the back door.

641
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,760
But we did meet up for burritos
afterwards and everything was

642
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:12,680
fine.
Wow.

643
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,560
Yeah, that is awesome.
So, yeah, shout out to Mike

644
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:23,120
Conrad, Evan Smith and Jacob
Davis, I think was his last

645
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,240
name.
And yeah, they were great

646
00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:27,040
executive lunch.
I think there's probably still

647
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,160
stuff like I know that at least
Mike Conrad, who was, he was the

648
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,160
trombone player and he's now a
professor at that, at that

649
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:35,880
school.
He's jazz.

650
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,640
At the college that we went.
To Oh, that's super cool, yeah.

651
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:43,880
So small world in a way.
Wow, jazz band antics for sure,

652
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,680
yeah.
So OK, I'm going to get into

653
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,600
some of that, like the big
feelings.

654
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,280
Yeah, please.
Yeah, and, and especially if now

655
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,200
or later, I'd love to just hear
more in general about the fact

656
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,520
that your composer, what do you
call them?

657
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:02,840
Your bandleader, dude.
Conductor.

658
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,240
Wants emotional intensity out of
you.

659
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:08,000
Because I haven't been in a band
or Symphony or what have you,

660
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,760
and I didn't actually ever
consider that emotional

661
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,320
intensity would change.
Just an instrument.

662
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,880
Not necessarily a voice, but
just an instrument.

663
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:19,640
So I'd love to hear more about
that.

664
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:25,080
OK, yeah.
So I was lucky and unlucky in

665
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:30,000
that I had two really passionate
wind ensemble conductors.

666
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,560
So wind ensemble is a fancy word
for concert band.

667
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,600
It's like, it's what you say if
you want it to sound fancy, but

668
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,840
it's it's a band, right?
And so I went, I went to Drake

669
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:45,040
University for two years and
the, the wooden Symphony there,

670
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:49,720
the conductor was Bob Minier.
And he was very, very passionate

671
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:55,040
himself.
And it came from a time I, I

672
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,760
think, sorry, Bob, if you're
listening to this, don't, don't

673
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,320
hate me.
I don't think he had the

674
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,280
emotional intelligence that we
would expect of an educator

675
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,480
today.
He'd been actually both of the,

676
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,320
the conductors that I'm going to
be talking about.

677
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,480
I've been conducting at the
college level since the 80s.

678
00:39:11,720 --> 00:39:13,200
OK.
So like they're.

679
00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:15,480
Different time it.
Was a different time and like

680
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,040
you used different techniques to
get the response that you

681
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,280
wanted.
And sometimes the only

682
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,240
techniques that you had were
like anger or shame.

683
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,200
And so I got some of that from
both of them.

684
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:30,000
Bob's one that I remember
distinctly.

685
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,840
He wasn't, I don't think, trying
to be awful.

686
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,480
But so when I went to college, I
told you that story about how I

687
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,280
sort of ended up there by
accident.

688
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:43,760
I also wasn't very good, but
there weren't many people to

689
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,800
choose from.
So I ended up being like the,

690
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:52,360
the principal horn in like the
different ensembles.

691
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,720
And like all of my colleagues
who were principals were like

692
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,040
older and like really, really
good.

693
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:01,840
And then there was me.
And I'm like I'm.

694
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,880
Comparatively terrible.
I don't.

695
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,760
Know what I'm doing?
And of course, my freshman year

696
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,880
we recorded ACD.
So we were in, you know, we were

697
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:13,960
ensconced in the Fine Arts
building.

698
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,200
It was all locked down like no
one could come in for a whole

699
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,080
weekend from Friday night
through Sunday night.

700
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,880
And we would record for a whole
8 or 9 hour day.

701
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,280
Yeah, with, with some breaks.
But like you were there, you

702
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,680
were there, you would go get
lunch, you would come back.

703
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:37,320
And like you, it was just, it
was constant and the expectation

704
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,640
of quality was very high.
It was very high.

705
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,040
And it was very difficult for me
to meet that expectation of

706
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,440
quality, especially at the end
of a long day.

707
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:52,480
Like, playing a brass instrument
supposedly has a lot in common

708
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,640
with, like, being an athlete in
that you're using a fine muscle

709
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,440
group, you know, in in very
intense ways.

710
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,200
Yeah.
And you do get physically tired.

711
00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:04,800
Right, you definitely say that
where where you do reach a point

712
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:06,720
of diminishing returns.
Absolutely.

713
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:09,640
And where your lips just can't
do what they need to do to make

714
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:14,040
the sound anymore.
And so, man, I remember every

715
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,600
single day from that long
weekend, I would go back to my

716
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,680
dorm and I would go take a
shower and I would cry in the

717
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,960
shower because it's the only
place, you know, I didn't have

718
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:24,680
roommates.
Well, I did.

719
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:26,400
That's why I was.
Crying in the shower.

720
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,040
Like the only place where you
could go to get away and I had

721
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,000
to come do it again and then do
it again.

722
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,800
And I remember trying to do this
one part and I just couldn't, I

723
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,920
just couldn't do it.
And this other woman that was in

724
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:43,400
the the section, she did it and,
you know, it was fantastic.

725
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,240
And I remember I bought her a
dozen roses as a thank you for

726
00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:49,080
that.
And to give you kind of an idea

727
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:54,000
about the kind of like person
that you're working with here,

728
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:59,000
Bob Menier, the conductor.
So we record the CD, He's

729
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,120
mastering it over the summer.
And we come back.

730
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,960
It's it's the fall.
It's the next year, 2005.

731
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:09,120
Right, 2005, Yeah.
Fall 2005, the first thing he

732
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,880
says to me, you might need to
get that bleep ready.

733
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:15,080
He goes.
Andy, do you have any idea how

734
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,400
many times I said fuck you over
the summer?

735
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:20,520
That's like the first thing he
says to you.

736
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,280
Yeah, no way.
Like. 20 years later and I'm

737
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:27,000
still like, I, I'm still like
there in the office when he says

738
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,600
that.
And and so like like I was

739
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,480
saying earlier, you get a lot
of, you can get a lot of

740
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:33,960
yourself wrapped up of.
Course.

741
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,080
I mean, how could you not?
Right.

742
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,880
And so that that was this is the
beginning of a very like, that

743
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,440
was the year that I spiraled.
I think a lot of people have

744
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,440
like a time in their life where
they sort of spiraled.

745
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,240
Totally.
Mine was like a gloriously long

746
00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:51,520
run of spiraling, but it started
there and I was in a.

747
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,120
Real wow.
So that that really impacted.

748
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,440
You it That really impacted me
and then I was also in a

749
00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,160
relationship with another
musician and.

750
00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:03,400
Oh, so that was probably like
the most emotionally explosive

751
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,440
thing.
And she was also another French

752
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,480
horn player and she was also
really good.

753
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,880
So we were like competing too.
And then?

754
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,400
Just keep sprinkling layers onto
that.

755
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:18,720
And then we had sort of an an
unpleasant breakup in the early

756
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:20,840
spring.
And actually, honestly, I

757
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:22,360
transferred to get away from
that.

758
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:28,680
Environment.
Well, we'll see TVD and so

759
00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:32,040
anyway, then I'm sort of like
melting down in this period, but

760
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,440
I'm getting better at playing.
And so that's, that's good.

761
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,920
So you were sticking with it
even though it's sending you

762
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,880
through like a whole ego crisis.
Yeah, so.

763
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,160
So I was going to ask about
that.

764
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:48,560
So when you were crying in the
shower, what were you crying

765
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,400
about?
I was crying because I thought

766
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:56,000
that the reason I couldn't
performed to the level expected

767
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,760
was because I wasn't good enough
as a human.

768
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,920
Like as a, it isn't like, oh, I
should have practiced more.

769
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,880
It was more like, no, I'm a
piece of shit.

770
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,080
Wow.
That's why I couldn't play the

771
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,360
high G at the end of this thing
or whatever, you know?

772
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:12,040
Right.
Wow.

773
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:17,520
Very unhealthy, yeah.
Do not recommend but but you

774
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:20,600
were you saying to yourself this
was a mistake?

775
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:26,560
I'm I'm quitting this or this,
I'm never going back or.

776
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,360
There was an element of like
wanting to do that, but for some

777
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,320
reason I couldn't actually give
it up because I, I did, I was

778
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,480
like, all right, well, I'm going
to go back to my original plan

779
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,400
and be an English major.
And like when I go back to my

780
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,240
original plan, I can keep the
money because I'll still be

781
00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:44,480
playing, but I'm not, I can't be
a music major.

782
00:44:44,720 --> 00:44:47,240
So I also was having trouble
with music theory, which is

783
00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:51,680
very, very difficult subject.
And I was just like, yeah, I

784
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,240
can't, I can't do this.
But for some reason I couldn't,

785
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,520
couldn't get away from it.
And I don't understand.

786
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,640
I still to this day could
probably pay a therapist a great

787
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,600
deal of money to help me unpack
why I didn't get out of there.

788
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,400
But.
I mean, I would just like to

789
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,440
interject to say I wonder if it
was just an inkling of self

790
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,840
belief that you can let go of or
just just enjoyment.

791
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:18,240
I mean, even with the pressure
and everything, was there an

792
00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:20,480
enjoyment of it that you kept
coming back for?

793
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,320
Maybe.
Well, I think there had to be.

794
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,840
And I think for me it was like
what we were talking about

795
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:29,480
earlier, the the flow state and
the energy and the ecclesiality

796
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,600
and the people.
Like it was more of that than

797
00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:35,280
you know.
But cause 'cause when?

798
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,520
You're making that even the
pressure from your composer and

799
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,320
stuff goes away, right?
Yep, you're totally present.

800
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:44,080
Very much so.
Sorry, go on.

801
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,640
I was just going to say that
maybe sort of what Maya was

802
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:52,800
saying like that there was a
party that you that was thinking

803
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:57,080
maybe I'm not a piece of shit.
I, it didn't feel like that.

804
00:45:57,240 --> 00:46:04,320
OK, maybe, maybe there was, but
I, I was pretty despondent about

805
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:05,960
just about a lot of stuff.
And.

806
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:10,640
And so then, yeah, transferred
to a new school and ended up

807
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,680
with a guy just as bad,
actually.

808
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:18,240
Like the, the meanest thing
anyone has ever said to me in my

809
00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:22,720
life was this guy who was also
my mentor.

810
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:27,000
So OK sorry I I feel like I'm
trauma dumping now.

811
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:29,440
No, Yeah, please.
Please continue I.

812
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,880
Guess when I say it takes me
back, it takes me back to a

813
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,520
dark.
Yes, due back to the depths of

814
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:39,440
despair, right?
But so and like I was a poor

815
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,360
student, I'm going to be honest.
Like I was AI had a hard time

816
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,720
waking up in the morning so I
skipped a lot of my early

817
00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:46,600
classes.
I was always like that.

818
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:51,840
Yeah, so one time I stayed up
for like 36 hours straight

819
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,000
'cause I had a bunch of concerts
and then had to do some, like

820
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,080
had to do some stuff.
Anyway, I was up for 36 hours

821
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,680
and then I went to sleep and I
slept through one of my

822
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:04,200
conducting lessons with this guy
and like, leaving a lot of the

823
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,040
story out.
But I slept through a conducting

824
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:10,040
lesson with him and I think he
was tired of my shit at this

825
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,560
point.
So I I show up the next day and

826
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,560
I would distinctly remember it
was the last day before

827
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,240
Thanksgiving break.
And I like knocking his office

828
00:47:18,240 --> 00:47:20,320
door.
And I was like, hey, I just

829
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:21,760
wanted to talk to you about
yesterday.

830
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:23,720
I apologize.
And he's like, there's nothing

831
00:47:23,720 --> 00:47:25,440
to discuss.
Andy.

832
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,880
Sometimes you're like a dog that
keeps shitting on the carpet and

833
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:33,160
eventually you don't let the dog
back into the house and he

834
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,000
closed the door.
Wow.

835
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,320
Super dramatic.
Dude, yeah.

836
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:40,480
Wow.
He was, he was just really

837
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,040
hoping that you would come to
his office because he was he was

838
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:44,920
ready.
He was ready to say that shop

839
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,560
that Yeah, definitely he.
Was like, he's like got some

840
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,760
drafts right here.
Like he's like, wow, what is it?

841
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,400
He's like a dog.
Yeah, he has.

842
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:53,920
He has one for each of his
students.

843
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:55,640
Yeah.
Oh, Andy.

844
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:56,720
OK, here we go.
Right.

845
00:47:56,720 --> 00:47:58,040
He's the one that I got to tell
him.

846
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:03,360
He's shitting on TV.
But like so, so situations like

847
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:04,920
that.
So there's a couple of things at

848
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,000
play, right?
There's the fact that this is an

849
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:11,360
older adult who is doing the job
that you want to be do.

850
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,000
Like at least in this case that
I wanted to be doing well.

851
00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:18,200
In in school settings, in
university settings I can that

852
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,800
dynamic is very present, so I
get what you're saying.

853
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:25,160
Yep, there's that power dynamic.
And then like, even if you don't

854
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:29,760
like a person, like that's a
mentor, maybe there's this sort

855
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,680
of weird respect, fear, love
like.

856
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,400
Right, you want their approval.
Yeah, you.

857
00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:38,440
Thing and yeah, I was
desperately hungry for approval

858
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,720
so that was really that was
really damaging to.

859
00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:42,080
Me, right.
Yeah, of course.

860
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,040
Fortunately, it was in the midst
of an pre-existing spiral, so

861
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:46,520
just.
Yeah, just keep going.

862
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:48,040
Just really.
Yeah.

863
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,120
Put the nail in your coffin
there with that one, yeah.

864
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:52,080
Dude.
But then like were there.

865
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,600
Any music profession like higher
ups that were nice?

866
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:57,520
Yes.
OK, there aren't all.

867
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,040
Actually the the woman that
conducted the orchestra, so the

868
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:04,800
orchestra, the Symphony
Orchestra is different from the

869
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,200
wind Symphony in that the wind
Symphony does not have string

870
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,880
instruments in it.
And then the orchestra, the

871
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:14,880
traditional Symphony Orchestra
does and is like this, has this

872
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:20,800
rich historical tradition dating
back to the 1700s of different

873
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,160
music that it can play.
And so this is a different

874
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:25,560
ensemble.
And the woman that conducted

875
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,240
that was a phenomenal,
phenomenal person.

876
00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:30,320
Nice.
Becky Burkhardt, I, I think

877
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,280
she's still alive, but she's
retired now.

878
00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:34,760
She was a really good conductor.
She had been a French horn

879
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:38,400
player actually and
understanding of of what what

880
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:39,600
that was.
Struggles.

881
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,200
But she was also a brilliant
music theorist.

882
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,920
And so like, because we were
playing that piece, right, that

883
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:49,520
we were just talking about that
we're just listening to.

884
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,360
And in that, the ending point,
she was like, listen to what

885
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,520
he's doing.
And she would use like music

886
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:59,120
theory terms that we're learning
in our classes to describe what

887
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:03,200
he's doing to make the sounds
operate in the way that they

888
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,320
were operating.
And so it.

889
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,880
Was making that connection.
Yeah, and she was so passionate

890
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,960
about it and she's like, it's so
amazing that he's like doing

891
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,120
these linked try tones and it's
and.

892
00:50:13,240 --> 00:50:15,000
You're just like, like.
Wow.

893
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,560
Yeah, yes, it is really cool.
So she was really great.

894
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,920
And her passion was positive.
Yes, her passion was positive.

895
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,480
So, yeah, I think for every, you
know, I just got entwined with a

896
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,560
couple of these guys that were
real negative in in a way.

897
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:32,720
And I think, like I said, I
think they were trying to help

898
00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:35,760
me, but they were trying to help
me with tools that weren't

899
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:37,160
appropriate for me at that.
Time.

900
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:38,400
Yeah.
I was just going to ask, do you

901
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,600
think that they were trying to
be inspirational?

902
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:44,920
Yes, 100%.
I just, that wasn't where I was

903
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,440
at at that point and it wasn't
something I could respond to in

904
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:49,680
the right way.
Like you were saying, it was

905
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:55,080
very much from a different time
where, like, I think, yeah,

906
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:58,400
people were expected to be
pushed past their limit and

907
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:02,440
then, you know, and then yelled,
abandoned themselves.

908
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:04,920
And, well, and you would yell,
like, as the teacher, the

909
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,720
leader, you would yell at people
to get them to do what you

910
00:51:07,720 --> 00:51:09,440
wanted.
Like, there's a famous

911
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:13,920
conductor, Arturo Toscanini.
He's, you know, just a famous,

912
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,400
really good conductor who was
Italian, came to America,

913
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:22,160
operated throughout the early
20th century, and he was just an

914
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:26,960
awful, like, mean man, but was
able to produce excellent,

915
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,800
excellent results.
And so there's recordings of him

916
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:34,080
screaming at the orchestras and
stuff and does this, this era

917
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:36,600
that they call the era of the
tyrant conductors.

918
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:40,080
And wow, I was just coming in at
the tail end of that.

919
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,680
Right.
And I I have a strong suspicion

920
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,600
I'm not nearly as involved in
classical music now, but I have

921
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:48,320
a strong suspicion that that
kind of thing would no longer

922
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:49,800
fly it.
For sure.

923
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:51,920
University.
Yeah, it's probably similar to

924
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:56,800
even coach coaching sports.
Yes, that that was definitely a

925
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,920
mentality of and I think that it
is still to some extent.

926
00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:02,840
But even in the NFL, there's,
you know, coaches who have a

927
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:06,880
reputation for being the person
who yells, and then the coaches

928
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:10,120
who have more of a reputation
for being, you know, nicer.

929
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:15,800
Yes, well, and I think we've
also learned better tools like

930
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,960
psychologically to work with
people to inspire them to do

931
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:24,200
well rather than to like beat
them to do well.

932
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:29,080
So anyway.
Yeah, well, and that can go to

933
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,320
yourself too.
That you know, crying in the

934
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,200
shower and calling yourself a
piece of shit is probably not

935
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:38,200
inspirational either.
Not the ideal outcome and and

936
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:40,720
probably not what anybody was
going for, but it's interesting

937
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:45,480
how our minds work that way.
And like we're, I guess I

938
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,960
shouldn't universalize, but I
think a lot of people in their

939
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:54,000
early 20s are really susceptible
to linking their identity to

940
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:55,600
what they're doing.
Absolutely.

941
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:57,560
Absolutely.
I don't.

942
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:01,000
I don't think it's, it stops in
the 20s necessarily.

943
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:05,800
I think that I think that wisdom
you can gain as you get older is

944
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:07,200
that.
But I don't think that everybody

945
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:08,080
does.
Yeah.

946
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:10,000
It's true.
And like, there are still things

947
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:14,120
that we attach ourselves to now.
Like, yeah, you know, I spend a

948
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:17,080
lot of my time outside of work
talking about and thinking about

949
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:18,680
the library.
Like, that's a really big part

950
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,440
of my identity.
And I feel like it probably if

951
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,240
something were to happen at work
that was like, I would get like

952
00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:26,760
a negative review or something
that would really still affect

953
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:28,920
me.
Hopefully not to the degree

954
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:30,080
right?
That this is.

955
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:34,120
Right, Take it into your actual
value of yourself.

956
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:36,000
'Cause right?
Or at least if I do it would I

957
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:39,400
would get over it more quickly.
Well, and, and to be fair, part

958
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:43,960
of the whole great thing about
the library is the culture, yes.

959
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,400
You know, so that that's not
usually part of it.

960
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:49,960
Anybody at the library would see
that review and be like, whoa,

961
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:52,120
that must have been a weird day.
That must have been an off day

962
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:55,480
for Andy because he's great.
Well, and like it's something

963
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,920
that I try to do as a manager
now is like I've seen a lot of

964
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:02,840
ways to not motivate people and
I've like I've seen some ways

965
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:04,800
that work and some, but I'm
like, well, I'm going to try and

966
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:08,520
make sure I'm never doing it
like shame or fear based.

967
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,080
It's like, man, what a crappy
way to go through.

968
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:14,200
Yeah, so closely and I, I do
feel like that is part of the

969
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:18,080
culture at the library is that
it isn't fear or shame based,

970
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:20,480
right, The motivation is.
Positive.

971
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,440
Is very positive and it's about
finding people's strengths.

972
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,200
And it's rooted in helping and
doing good things.

973
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:27,720
It's.
Rooted in helping and yeah,

974
00:54:27,720 --> 00:54:30,720
exactly.
It's it's about cooperation and

975
00:54:30,720 --> 00:54:33,840
camaraderie and.
And, and yeah, working as a team

976
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,200
and I've definitely been in work
situations where it's about

977
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,240
getting ahead.
And if you have to put other

978
00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:43,080
people down to get ahead, then
that's what you're going to do.

979
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:46,120
And that culture just does not
work for me.

980
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,480
It doesn't work for most people.
We're human beings and I think

981
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:54,440
it's a trickle down from our
entire society and just, you

982
00:54:54,440 --> 00:55:01,480
know, I mean, I can't imagine
becoming a profession or a a

983
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:04,960
musician as your profession.
And then that those lines get

984
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,040
even more blurred, right,
because now you're living is

985
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:10,320
based off of how many gigs you
can get and whatever.

986
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:16,840
So then on top of the already,
you know, brain full of you

987
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:18,800
know, how many ways can I be
mean to myself?

988
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,720
Here's another one that you can
add on because your actual.

989
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,080
It's super easy to affirm.
Yeah.

990
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:28,280
Yeah, it's super easy to affirm
I missed a note.

991
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,000
Yep, you know I and it's I
missed this part.

992
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:32,120
Somehow.
Right.

993
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:32,880
Yeah.
Right.

994
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,760
That that was always the thing
that like, now I look back at it

995
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:37,360
and I'm like, yeah, that was
ridiculous.

996
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,280
But that was how it felt.
Was like, oh, I didn't succeed

997
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:43,320
because I am not good enough as
a human, right?

998
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:44,960
That's that's gross.
Yeah.

999
00:55:45,240 --> 00:55:48,640
If anybody's listening out
there, don't don't believe it if

1000
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,160
that's what your brain says or
what anyone is trying to share.

1001
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:53,240
With you don't believe it.
Good call.

1002
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:56,160
Yeah, you are not what you do.
And this goes back to what you

1003
00:55:56,160 --> 00:56:00,360
were just talking about.
Our society is really bad at

1004
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:03,200
treating people like people.
It's really good at treating

1005
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:06,640
people like an object or
something to generate money.

1006
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:12,760
But that is not what we are.
And that is, I think a good, I

1007
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:16,360
think a good leader or a good
teacher or a good, you know,

1008
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:18,240
parent.
And unfortunately we don't all

1009
00:56:18,240 --> 00:56:22,240
have good examples of these
things, but a good person in a

1010
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:27,760
role of leadership over someone
else or of someone else will

1011
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:31,920
recognize that and try to affirm
that whole humanity because

1012
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,080
we're not just value producing
machines.

1013
00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:36,640
At the end of the day.
That's not what it's about.

1014
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:41,680
That's not what you know, Your
productivity does not determine

1015
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:43,400
your worth.
And I know that that's been like

1016
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:47,440
drilled into our heads for for
generations that that's, that it

1017
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,440
is productivity that determines
our worth, but it it really

1018
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:52,200
isn't.
And when we internalize that,

1019
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:54,360
it's very harmful.
Yeah, yeah.

1020
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:58,200
It, it, it breaks you.
I mean it, I think that that's

1021
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:01,400
something that the leadership I
experience at the library now is

1022
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:03,520
that I am treated as a whole
person.

1023
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:08,080
And when you are in a situation
where you're treated as your

1024
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:13,000
productivity is your value.
I mean, I think it can like

1025
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:14,480
you're saying, it's just so
damaging.

1026
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:18,800
Yeah, absolutely.
But Left Turn, do you want to

1027
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,040
hear another really good French
horn piece of music?

1028
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:21,960
Totally all.
Right.

1029
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:27,200
It's called Sanctuary and it's
by Frank Ticheli.

1030
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:34,800
TICHELI, it's this is a wind
band piece, like a wind Symphony

1031
00:57:34,800 --> 00:58:28,680
piece.
Is this piquing any of your

1032
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:30,440
interest to pick up your French
horn?

1033
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:34,240
No, but it is This is also
bringing me right back to a

1034
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:38,400
moment.
Really, I wasn't really

1035
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:43,440
expecting it, but so when I
transferred you and I, I've, I

1036
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:45,520
am a large man.
And then the other, there was

1037
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:47,720
another guy who was a Frenchman
player that was probably twice

1038
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:51,080
my size.
He's a really big guy and we

1039
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:53,880
played together a lot.
He was phenomenal.

1040
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:57,000
He was an amazing and he's
still, he's a college professor

1041
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,120
now and he still does a
phenomenal job.

1042
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:05,640
We called ourselves one literal
ton of fun, but he was the one

1043
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:10,760
playing the solo part for this.
And I learned so much from.

1044
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:14,480
I was just literally like
sitting next to him, watching

1045
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:16,480
and listening to what he was
doing.

1046
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:19,720
Excuse me, I got something
cocked in my throat.

1047
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:24,320
I'm not emotional, but just
sitting next to him while he was

1048
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:26,800
doing all this stuff was really
remarkable.

1049
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:30,280
And then as the song continues
to grow and build, there's a

1050
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:34,680
really powerful, like, climactic
moment in here that is another

1051
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:35,920
one of those, like, emotional
things.

1052
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:40,160
But I'm taken back to sitting in
Davis Hall, which is very much

1053
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:42,680
like this room.
It's black walls and like,

1054
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:46,920
buttons that you can pull.
And Josh Johnson is playing this

1055
00:59:47,040 --> 01:03:47,050
amazing piece.
It was so hard to get right now.

1056
01:03:47,490 --> 01:03:53,850
Oh my gosh, I bet.
It is sort of funny how you

1057
01:03:53,850 --> 01:03:55,570
mentioned that's so hard to get
right.

1058
01:03:55,890 --> 01:03:58,370
I am just sitting here
appreciating listening to it so

1059
01:03:58,370 --> 01:04:02,130
much that I'm glad I don't have
the pressure of playing it.

1060
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:07,040
And so it's interesting to me
how you can be the musician

1061
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:09,840
doing it and you're feeling it
and it makes sense that you're

1062
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:12,880
you are feeling it.
But at the same time, it's so

1063
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:14,560
easy to just get so engrossed in
it.

1064
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:18,240
It's so beautiful and it's so
emotional that you you were just

1065
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:20,000
sitting here with your eyes
closed listening to it.

1066
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:24,320
And, and that's the way that I
want to listen to it also.

1067
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:30,760
And it's just interesting
because I feel like for me, I'd

1068
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:32,160
be sitting there waiting for my
part.

1069
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:34,560
And like, miss it and you're
listening.

1070
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:38,400
Or not appreciate it.
Oh right, 'cause you have to use

1071
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:39,400
it.
Very fine line.

1072
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:42,240
Because right?
'Cause you, there's a part of it

1073
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:48,240
where you're like, I am on a
craftsperson and I have to do my

1074
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:56,160
craft correctly in this right?
And like that's where some of

1075
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:59,240
the the techniques that maybe
those conductors did that I

1076
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,360
don't love.
I think that's sort of what it

1077
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:06,080
is rooted in because how do you,
how do you do that craftsmanship

1078
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:12,200
and then transcend that to make
it correctly executed and

1079
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:17,240
emotionally poignant?
Like, how do you learn all of

1080
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:19,480
this stuff so that you're using
your brain, but then you learn

1081
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:22,960
it so well that you get past
your brain and you can still

1082
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:25,400
have all of that somehow, but be
going from the heart?

1083
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:28,120
And to some extent, you should
enjoy it.

1084
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:30,760
That's the dream.
Right.

1085
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,640
So I, I mean, I'm sure that
affects the sound.

1086
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:36,280
I mean, it's not going to, it's
not going to sound good if.

1087
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:40,240
Yeah, I will say one of the
things that this reminds me of

1088
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:44,400
that I miss doing is listening
to music very loudly on like my

1089
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:47,600
home speaker system.
I don't really do that anymore.

1090
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:49,680
Do it.
Yeah, I can.

1091
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:52,600
Now I have a house too you.
Have a house go home this

1092
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:54,560
weekend.
Well, I don't have any good like

1093
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:56,360
speaker systems.
I get good headphones.

1094
01:05:56,360 --> 01:06:00,240
But I remember we turned that
piece up super loud at this

1095
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:02,520
party house one day like the mid
afternoon.

1096
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:04,880
No.
Way if there's one song that

1097
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:10,160
really gets the party going.
Sanctuary Cy Frank to Kelly like

1098
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:11,800
you leave that free bird at
home.

1099
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:14,160
Bring Sanctuary by Frank.
To Kelly.

1100
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:16,280
Oh shit, it's going to pop off
now.

1101
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:19,880
Which is still going on, but the
good part is over.

1102
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:21,880
No worries.
I'm just kidding.

1103
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:24,280
It's a it's a great piece.
Yeah, it's beautiful.

1104
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:29,440
So if I may, I'm just, I am
interested in sort of your

1105
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:33,760
transition from that spiral
because you kind of had these

1106
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:37,280
two different people who, you
know, we're trying to inspire

1107
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:42,120
you, but ultimately sort of
bringing you down and it sounds

1108
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:43,880
like you found your way out of
that.

1109
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:49,440
Yes, but very slowly, very
slowly.

1110
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:53,000
I, I didn't really know what to
do.

1111
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:57,320
Like I had plans for what I was
going to do is like a job and

1112
01:06:57,320 --> 01:06:59,960
like, Oh, well, maybe I'll be a
college professor or whatever.

1113
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:04,440
And I just sort of like barely
limped across the finish line,

1114
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:06,800
right?
Like I just was like, I'm, I'm

1115
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:09,720
out, I'm going to go.
I got to be done, you know, do

1116
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:11,280
something.
So then I took a job.

1117
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:16,880
So right out of college, I took
a job as a security guard and I

1118
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:19,080
was still playing, but that
wasn't what was paying the

1119
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:24,120
bills, even though I was playing
with like a bigger orchestras

1120
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:25,640
than I had been when I was in
school.

1121
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:30,160
I also had a day job.
And then I went and moved to

1122
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:33,840
Wichita, KS and sold musical
instruments.

1123
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:36,440
Seems like it would be perfect.
But I just happened to fall in

1124
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:39,800
with another terrible person.
Which to be clear, Bob Monnier

1125
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:42,560
and Doctor Johnson were not
terrible people.

1126
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:44,760
They were doing the best with
what they had.

1127
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:47,400
I want to make sure like Bob
Monnier at least is still alive

1128
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:49,680
so there's a chance you're just
like Bob.

1129
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:51,440
I get it, you weren't trying to
mess me up.

1130
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:55,320
But Doctor Johnson unfortunately
died of COVID during during.

1131
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:57,600
2020.
And it was one of those things

1132
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:01,680
where, like, I was still on
Facebook at the time and we all,

1133
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:05,400
all of his former students had
this weird outpouring of grief

1134
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:12,520
of like, he, he was kind of
mean, but we also loved him.

1135
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:16,520
And he had made a lot of people
feel the same way that he made

1136
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:18,800
me feel throughout his career.
And.

1137
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:21,840
So there were a lot of us that
had like, really complicated

1138
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:26,319
feelings.
Yeah, I was lucky when my dad

1139
01:08:26,319 --> 01:08:28,439
passed away that we had a good
relationship.

1140
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:31,479
But I imagine it would be like
if you had a tumultuous

1141
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:34,439
relationship with your father
and then your father dies.

1142
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:37,279
You've got all this sort of
baggage and you're.

1143
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:39,680
All.
This stuff and you're like, I

1144
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:43,160
kind of want to be like him, but
I also got to be totally

1145
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:45,800
different from him.
So that was complicated.

1146
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:52,439
But anyway, Wichita went very
poorly for me and then I moved

1147
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:56,920
out here and that was, I think
where it really began as I kind

1148
01:08:56,920 --> 01:09:01,240
of moved 1000 miles away and
started my life over again.

1149
01:09:01,319 --> 01:09:03,399
That, that that was my solution.
Yeah.

1150
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:06,359
And it did highly recommended if
you get the opportunity.

1151
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:10,319
I was just very lucky my parents
had retired out here.

1152
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:14,439
And so they were, they kind of
saw like I was in a pretty bad

1153
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:17,520
situation and they were like,
OK, just come live with us for a

1154
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:20,240
little bit.
And I was like 27 or 28.

1155
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:22,800
So it really felt like failure
to move back home.

1156
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:24,319
Absolutely.
But I was just like, you know

1157
01:09:24,319 --> 01:09:26,560
what?
Yeah, I can't like if I stay in

1158
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:28,640
Wichita.
You were failing anyway I.

1159
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:31,560
I was failing and I probably
would have like died young of a

1160
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:35,680
heart attack or something 'cause
I was also like smoking and

1161
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:38,640
drinking a lot, like very
stressed out all the time.

1162
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:43,479
And so, yeah, I moved out here,
started a new career.

1163
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:46,160
It turns out I was just going to
work at the library 'cause they

1164
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:50,279
were hiring.
That was in December of 2012.

1165
01:09:50,279 --> 01:09:54,200
And here we are.
But yeah, for me it was time.

1166
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:59,320
It really was, it was time.
It was distance and it was, I

1167
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:03,280
don't know, I kept playing here
for a while and it, it didn't

1168
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:06,120
ever feel quite as bad, like it
never got quite as dark.

1169
01:10:06,480 --> 01:10:09,680
But I also never got quite as
passionate about it.

1170
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:12,720
So hanging it up I think was
good for me.

1171
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:17,280
But yeah, I think for a lot of
people that hang it up and then

1172
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:19,560
later they're like, oh, now I
want to do it again.

1173
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:23,480
Because now I can do it for fun.
Like now I can just enjoy.

1174
01:10:23,480 --> 01:10:27,160
It and that's why I have the
piano and the trumpet and the

1175
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:29,640
shakahachi flute, because like
when I play the French horn,

1176
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:31,600
there's a lot of like baggage
with that.

1177
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:35,640
It takes you back to all those
times and places and.

1178
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:39,000
But then I can play the trumpet
and I'm like, Oh yeah, this is

1179
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:41,040
fun, fun.
This is a fun instrument that

1180
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:42,600
I'm bad at, but like in a fun
way.

1181
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:44,480
Wonderful.
That's cool.

1182
01:10:44,480 --> 01:10:45,920
It's.
Sort of rebuilding that

1183
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:49,640
relationship with playing music.
Right.

1184
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:54,480
That doesn't have that all that
stuff wrapped up in it.

1185
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:58,160
Wow, good for you for for
seeking out those alternate

1186
01:10:58,160 --> 01:11:02,000
outlets to still get some of
that, you know, musicality out

1187
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:05,160
of you without bringing up all
that stuff that's.

1188
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:08,360
You know, I think everybody's
balance is probably different

1189
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:09,880
and everybody will have a
different.

1190
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:13,400
Like, if you had a traumatic
experience playing music, like,

1191
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:16,760
I think it's OK to hang it up.
But for me, I'm like, yeah, I

1192
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:20,360
get to do this other, like,
weird stuff now because we found

1193
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:22,840
a $25 garage sale.
Trumpet, right?

1194
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:25,320
Shakahachi fleet off.
Of eBay or whatever.

1195
01:11:25,320 --> 01:11:30,400
Yeah, it's, it's, it's so nice
to relieve yourself from the

1196
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:31,480
pressure.
Yeah.

1197
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:35,720
So anyway, yeah, hopefully it
didn't scare anybody away that

1198
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:37,840
wants to be a professional brass
player.

1199
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:41,400
But you know, there's a lot,
there's a lot to it, and it's

1200
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:44,960
not as romantic as maybe it
sounds.

1201
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:49,000
Like, you know, I appreciate the
the you being real with that.

1202
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:51,320
And it actually isn't the first
time that we have ended up

1203
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:54,640
talking about similar stuff on
this podcast.

1204
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:59,000
I think that for those of you
that are creative and, and can

1205
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:04,280
produce your creativeness for
others to hear and judge and

1206
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:08,760
have opinions about it, can, you
know, really affect your

1207
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:13,320
relationship with that form and,
and with how you enjoy it and

1208
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:16,080
how you do it.
And yeah, it's it's not the

1209
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:18,080
first time that we've had
artists, you know, talking about

1210
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:20,960
trying to kind of reclaim those
things or trying to delve into

1211
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:25,280
other areas where they can have
more fun instead of, you know,

1212
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:26,800
having it bring up all the
pressure.

1213
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:29,840
And yeah, so I I think that
there will be listeners that

1214
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:31,560
will get some positive stuff out
of your.

1215
01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:33,840
Yeah, definitely.
Although I think it, it is sort

1216
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:37,360
of interesting because you it is
sort of it came from

1217
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:40,240
practicality.
You wanted to play something

1218
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:43,000
that you could get a scholarship
on.

1219
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:46,360
Yeah, and and it became this
whole, like this whole life.

1220
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:49,920
So and it, it wasn't like, God
damn it, I'm going to play the

1221
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:52,880
French horn.
Whether I'd Yeah, no matter what

1222
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:55,560
I do in this life.
And I got to pay for it somehow,

1223
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:58,040
yeah.
So, so it sort of was practical

1224
01:12:58,040 --> 01:13:00,640
to begin with.
So and it, but it sounds like

1225
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:03,680
you did have a passion for the
music and being part of that,

1226
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:11,360
but it was not necessarily, you
know, the I I live or die, I'm

1227
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:13,720
going to play the French horn.
And I think that's why I've been

1228
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:15,840
OK not doing it.
That's good.

1229
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:19,040
Because it's like, you know, I
think there are people that are

1230
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:20,440
like that.
They're like, I will face

1231
01:13:20,440 --> 01:13:23,000
whatever obstacle I have to face
and I'm going to keep doing

1232
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:23,920
this.
Yeah.

1233
01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:26,120
So you were sort of were able to
walk away from it.

1234
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:29,920
I I was and I wish I had been
able to do it like 10 years

1235
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:33,360
sooner, but I guess better late
than never.

1236
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:35,320
Yeah, absolutely.
It's time to plan it for you was

1237
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:37,760
20 years ago, but the second
best time is today.

1238
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:39,280
Yes, right.
Yeah.

1239
01:13:39,480 --> 01:13:42,520
Same like best time to change
your life is 20 years ago but

1240
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:45,520
the second best time is today.
For real, and you're better or

1241
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:47,320
worse.
It must have brought you through

1242
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:51,160
things, however, it had to have
for you to land here when you

1243
01:13:51,160 --> 01:13:53,520
did and knew what happened after
that and.

1244
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:57,600
Also, I met a lot of cool people
and I have a lot of like, we

1245
01:13:57,600 --> 01:13:59,880
didn't dive into all the fun
stories, but like there's a lot

1246
01:13:59,880 --> 01:14:00,760
of fun stories.
Cool.

1247
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:01,720
Yeah.
And like.

1248
01:14:02,240 --> 01:14:05,240
People that I'm still in touch
with who are, you know, are

1249
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:07,960
still musicians or like,
teaching music or things like

1250
01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:10,080
that.
So yeah, I made a lot of human

1251
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:12,360
connections, which is worth it.
There you go Anyway.

1252
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:13,840
Well, thank you so much for
having me.

1253
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:16,880
I've really enjoyed my.
Yeah, we really enjoyed having

1254
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:19,080
you.
Yeah, it sounds like since you

1255
01:14:19,080 --> 01:14:21,440
have a meditation group to get
to, you need to get out of here,

1256
01:14:21,440 --> 01:14:25,840
but really quickly.
I just wanted to hear how it

1257
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:28,840
felt to reminisce on your past.
I love it.

1258
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:32,000
Yeah, I really enjoy it.
And like, this is a very chill

1259
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:33,640
atmosphere for that.
Cool.

1260
01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:37,760
So I think what we've done an
excellent job of cultivating a

1261
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:40,680
place where people can feel like
safe and comfortable to talk

1262
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:42,840
about kind of whatever.
So that's what.

1263
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:45,200
We're going for.
So thank you so much for joining

1264
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:46,960
us, Andy.
You had a good time.

1265
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:48,400
I've appreciated.
We're wonderful.

1266
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:53,040
Enjoy, Thanks to listen to some
Zen meditation I.

1267
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:55,240
Will, thank you.
Yeah, alright, appreciate it,

1268
01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:55,840
guys.
Yes.

1269
01:14:55,880 --> 01:14:57,520
You're welcome.
Thank you.

1270
01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:05,280
Thanks for tuning in to that
Takes me back broadcasting from

1271
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:10,520
97 OW studio in beautiful Grand
Junction, Co.

1272
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:14,400
Today's episode was recorded,
produced and edited by your

1273
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:17,000
hosts Kaylin David and Maya
Sage.

1274
01:15:17,480 --> 01:15:19,480
There's a lot of our
conversation that doesn't make

1275
01:15:19,480 --> 01:15:22,720
the final episode.
To listen to full Uncut

1276
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:25,560
interviews, join our community
on Patreon.

1277
01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:28,960
If you're interested in being a
guest on our show, visit our

1278
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:32,840
website thattakesmeback.org and
fill out our guest interest

1279
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:38,120
form.
That's www.thattakesmeback.org

1280
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:40,360
where you can listen to every
episode.

1281
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:43,200
If you enjoyed listening, please
share it with a friend.

1282
01:15:43,440 --> 01:15:46,280
If you don't have any friends,
share it with that really old

1283
01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:48,560
couple that you only ever see at
the grocery store.

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