Chuck Jay-Beaches and Butterflies

Episode 1 Guest Chuck Jay

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

music and memories, podcast, Chuck J, Wave 11, solo career, Hawaii, Kendrick Lamar, butterflies, interludes, songwriting, freestyle, San Ysidro Park, East Side courts, creative process.

SPEAKERS

Charles, Kelan David, Maia Honeycutt

Kelan David  00:00

You know when you hear a song and it triggers a memory, it instantly takes you back to a particular person or place or moment. This podcast is all about that song and those memories. Welcome to that takes me back where we share stories that connect music and memories. We're your hosts, Kelan David

Maia Honeycutt  00:19

and Maia Sage,

Kelan David  00:23

preserves. Hell yeah, yeah.

Maia Honeycutt  00:24

I agree. I will say sometimes I have to, like, have half of it normal and the other half with something fancy on there.

Charles  00:32

You can't, have both

Kelan David  00:33

what is what is normal?

Maia Honeycutt  00:33

Can't do, like, just a whole french toast with blueberries on it, because it's like, I also want to experience the OG french toast vibe. See what you mean. So I will do like, half of it normal syrup, and then, like, toss some something.

Kelan David  00:47

 I will say that that's kind of how I do all of it. So like, even, like a burrito, I'll eat a burrito, like, half without extra sauce, right? And then half of the burrito with, like, sauce

Charles  00:57

interesting.

Maia Honeycutt  00:58

Kind of convinces you to finish the second half of your food

Charles  01:02

Exactly. If you want this sauce,

Maia Honeycutt  01:07

you're already full, but check it out.

Charles  01:15

It's saucy, good.

Kelan David  01:22

I really enjoyed talking with Charles.

Maia Honeycutt  01:24

 I did too, and I thought that it was a great start, like for our first guest coming in and us not really knowing how it's gonna go, not knowing how much he's gonna enjoy the conversation, or where the conversation was gonna go. It was a blast.

Kelan David  01:39

Yeah, it was so much fun. And I feel like he had a lot of fun. And my thinking is that as much fun as we were having, that's going to be broadcast, you know, as part of the show, and I think that's going to make it really enjoyable for the listeners. Charles was a very good person to have at first because of his just outgoing ness and charmingness and just willingness to experiment with us get this going,

Maia Honeycutt  02:07

Yeah, and just not take himself too seriously. But also at the same time, you know, we did get a little bit serious, and I appreciated that he was, you know, willing to come with some truth. It's, it's enjoyable to me to hear you guys talking about your process with creating music and stuff like that, even though that's not like what this podcast is about. It's just it's enjoyable to listen to.

Kelan David  02:30

Yeah, totally. I think that as we have different folks from different backgrounds on the show, we're going to learn those different perspectives a lot. And like to have musicians on the show, I think is going to be really cool. But again, this isn't about being a music expert, yeah, and I think that that's perfect, though.

Maia Honeycutt  02:47

 I think it's really nice that, you know, we're flexible enough to allow anybody's perspective, you know, share what music is to them on a day to day basis. You know, it was really cool that he brought the story that he brought, because we got to go back in time with him. We were sitting on the beach in Hawaii, right here from the studio. He got to go back to that time and place with us. But also it brought us to all kinds of conversations about the song itself, about his life now, about all all kinds of things.

Kelan David  03:21

Yeah, it was so much fun to the extent that I was questioning what we had even recorded, like, because, because it was just kind of, yeah, get into that like, so much fun zone that...

Maia Honeycutt  03:35

, we were so present in the actual conversation, of just enjoying each other, goofing off, whatever that Yeah, at a certain point you're like, did we Right? Like, did we do what we meant to do?

Kelan David  03:46

Right? Like, I was in a place where I wasn't judging what was happening at all as it was happening. And so afterward, it's like, oh, did we do anything worthwhile there? Or did we just, like, hang out and have fun? And I think that we did both.

Maia Honeycutt  03:58

We did both, and that's really exciting, and I think that that bodes well for the future of this podcast, yeah, because I think that that's something that we've been concerned about. Like, yeah, of course, we can just come into the studio and just chat with somebody for three hours, just for funsies, but we do want to have an episode,right? Ideally,

Kelan David  04:19

 totally, yeah, and something that people will enjoy,

Maia Honeycutt  04:22

 yes, yeah, something that someone else who wasn't in the room can listen to and enjoy, right?

Kelan David  04:27

 And that's the part that that I do question, do I think that it has potential because we had so much fun, or is it that we had so much fun, but it's not going to translate to the episode.

Maia Honeycutt  04:37

I guess we'll just have to see what the listeners think.

Kelan David  04:45

I just want to take a minute to have you formally introduce yourself, tell us who you are, why you're here, what you do?

Charles  04:51

Yeah, so my name is Charles Walker, but my stage name is Chuck J, formerly with the band wave 11, who was very popular here in Junction. I.

Maia Honeycutt  05:00

Whoo, yeah, I still have my jersey.

Charles  05:02

You do?

Maia Honeycutt  05:03

Oh yeah, dude, yes, signed and everything.

Charles  05:05

 I love that jersey. That thing was sick.

Maia Honeycutt  05:07

I break it out. Every once in a while, I try to keep it nice, but every once in a while, I'll put it like over the top of a hoodie. Oh, right, bring it out.

Charles  05:16

 It's, it's what hockey jerseys are for. Totally No, um, formerly with Wave 11. I actually just ended in February and decided to go solo. Just a matter of a lot going in my life. I have kids and a wife, and I want to focus on them a little bit more. So yeah, I decided to kind of go the solo route. And it's been fantastic. This year, been getting a lot of great support, a lot of love here from the valley, and then, yeah, doing my first tour in October in California. And really exciting. I'm very stoked about that. It's going to be called the homegrown tour, and it's all in my hometown in Gilroy. And I'll be playing with two of my friends, Nolan and Stefan. They go by another second music, but yeah, very excited to do that. Just a young black kid from San Jose moved here to Grand Junction in 2016 and just glad to spread my music. So that's who I am. Wow, yeah, thank you, and thanks for being here.

Charles  06:10

Yo, what's going on? Y'all, it's Charles aka Chuck J That's what I usually do.

Kelan David  06:13

That's it just the one AKA,

Charles  06:15

yeah, I just do one aka now, but back in the day i i used to be like, Yo, y'all. It's Charles aka Chuck J aka cookie from nets declassify, AKA your boy. I would just add on so much stuff. This is like, when it was like me, Zach and Derek, like, back in the day with the three piece. And I would just be so that band was so much fun, because we could just be so silly, yeah, just so silly. So, yeah, like, I used to do that where I'd do a whole bunch of AKA, and sometimes I would just name, like, random stuff. Yeah, no. A lot of people have been asking, like, where I'm at on Spotify. And, you know, streaming services, there is nothing yet. I've just taken this year to actually try to record, because all I have online is wave 11 stuff, right? So, yeah, I took this year, but September 15, I believe, is the date. Fingers crossed. If everything gets pushed through, Oh, wow. Real quick. Yes, coming up very quick. My first single that I actually has been in the vault for a long time. It's one of those songs that I wrote. This song in 2017. No, no, no. 2018 was when I wrote this song. And I wrote it didn't have a girlfriend at the time, and then now that I like, I'm married, it fits so perfect. Oh, that's nice. So works out great. So, yeah, the song's called pally peach. So stoked to finally release that song. You know that song? Yeah? So, yeah, yeah, I'm super stoked for that. So September 15 is when that'll be released. And, yeah, I'm super stoked about and that'll be like, on Spotify, Spotify, all streaming platforms, yeah, whole shebang. So, yeah, oh no.

Maia Honeycutt  07:54

Okay, guys, okay, we have a podcast to do, right? Yes, we do. We do now. And I Kellen didn't tell me too much before he sent me this, so I wasn't sure, is this like going to be like, a trip down memory lane, or is this more? Oh, okay,

Charles  08:12

yes, absolutely,

Maia Honeycutt  08:14

yes, perfect. I'm excited. So what song takes you back, Charles?

Charles  08:19

So the song that I have is actually something by Kendrick Lamar that he never fully released. It was just kind of like a, oh, look at this beat. This sounds good type of thing. And he wrapped to it and everything. But I think the song is 38 seconds. It's either 38 or 48 the reason why I know that is because I listened to it all day when I, like found out about the song I listened to it all day, and it's called butterflies, and it's so cool. The video is really cool. His words are really cool in the whole thing. But the reason why I liked it is, you know, I grew up with gospel and Jess, like, those are the main too. And then, you know, as I keep growing, going through the Limewire phase and such like that, I love hip hop, so then the hip hop meets jazz. It's like the perfect, I swear it's still to this day, the perfect combination of hip hop and jazz. And, you know, I listened to the version that he had. I was living in Hawaii, 2014 I think there's it was 2014 that was the same year To Pimp A Butterfly came out. And it was supposed to be a part of that album, but he never did it.

Maia Honeycutt  09:32

So, okay, I was curious which album it was supposed to be on. That definitely makes sense with the jazz sound too, right? Yeah.

Charles  09:40

 The whole album kind of reflects Hip Hop jazz, you know, yeah, throughout the whole thing. And yeah, I was super duper mad he never, like, released the full thing. So if he ever hears this, I'm mad at you, Kendrick, you should totally release something. I know you're probably not gonna hear this, but if you do release that shit, yeah. Bit more we need it. Not like you haven't given us countless albums, but just release that one, please. But yeah, no, I listened to it like I downloaded it illegally off of my mix tapes at the time. And man, I I was planning on going down to the beach, and I was either gonna go surf or squid fishing by myself, just like a solo day by myself.

Kelan David  10:26

 I feel like that's a lot of my days. I have to decide between surfing or squid fishing.

Charles  10:30

Yeah, you know what I'm saying, like, you're in lovely, lovely Colorado, right? Come here, little squeaky but yeah, no. Like, I had just left the Dole Plantation, and I ate like, three cups of pineapple ice cream, so I'm feeling great. And then I stopped at a little local shore or a local local store and got, like, a 12 pack of Konas, went to the beach, ended up not surfing, didn't squid fish at all. I just had my headphones on, and I just remember just sitting on the beach, and it was like almost time for sunset, but still hot, but it was getting to that point. The sky was kind of pink, and it was just me. There's nobody else on the beach. It was, it was so serene, like it was a perfect moment. And every time I hear that, every time I hear the song, I go back to that moment, wow. And I always think, like, you know, you know, in times when, oh, life's stressful, I have all this I got bills, I got all this stuff, I go back to that moment, and that's my happy spot. So, so you're talking about, like, a 38 second clip, literally, wow, that's it 38 and I listened to it all day, all day. And at that time it was, you know, the clip with Kendrick rapping on it. The version I have now that I listened to is an instrumental. Someone on youtube put it together, someone did release it on YouTube, extended instrumental version, and I listened to that now. And even even just that, that instrumental version does that. So you don't perfect the wrapping on top of yep, yep, because then for me, like, I don't know in my head. I don't know how everybody else works, but if I hear instrumental, my mind goes to at automatically, I'm rapping in my head. So if I hear, like, any type of beat, I don't care if it's rock, I'm a rap to that.

Maia Honeycutt  12:19

You're you're already freestyle

Charles  12:20

in my head, in my head. So

Maia Honeycutt  12:22

 I don't think everybody has that.

Speaker 1  12:26

Not everybody you know, saying thank you. God, I appreciate you.

Maia Honeycutt  12:30

That's actually really, really cool. Does that ever turn off?

Charles  12:33

No,

Maia Honeycutt  12:34

okay,

Charles  12:34

it never does. So going back to the song, like I just see that moment in life, of like the sun is about to set. Water in Hawaii is beautiful, you know? And I was in an area that was like, I was in North Shore, but it was kind of a, like a secret spot that the locals kind of taught me, and you have to, you have to go through some bushes. So it's a little sketch. The first time I did it, I was with my boy, Sean and I was like, bro, like, what are we doing right now? Like, I don't want to go through bushes right now. Yes. Like, I don't want to do all this, because in bushes, like, they have bores out there. So,

Kelan David  13:10

you know my policy, I don't go through bushes.

Charles  13:14

I don't do this all right, but, yeah, once you get through, you know, all the shrubs and stuff like that. Like, you're just like, it's, there's one spot where it's all rock, and it's like, Slate rock, and it's a lot of like, where people go get pictures and stuff for their social media. But you go onto that slate rock, and then you can walk whichever direction, and mainly only the locals know about it. So yeah,

Maia Honeycutt  13:40

that's chill.

Kelan David  13:41

Yeah, it's kind of interesting that you did have, like, the beach to yourself, because you don't even picture that nowadays,

Charles  13:45

especially Hawaii. Like, everyone's always on the beach. It's a 24 24/7 thing, you know, that's the way of life. But yeah, just that particular day, not a soul was walking by. Like, I don't even remember, birds flying by. It was just me, like, just me and the scene, and kenge Lamar, apparently. So, yeah, okay.

Kelan David  14:07

So, so number one, yeah, like, so what were you feeling? I mean, like you're sitting there, you're alone, you're on the beach,

Charles  14:13

yeah, um, at that time, like, I was working three jobs, so I was stressed, like, you just working all the time. But I also wasn't stressed, because I'm like, Oh, I'm in Hawaii. Like, what can what can be so stressful. But in that moment, I just felt like life was complete, like everything that I could have ever hoped for was right there, that moment right there.

Kelan David  14:35

And so, so you have this, like, 3638 second clip of like, what life is supposed to be,

Charles  14:41

 yes, yes. It literally like it's it's funny saying that, and even when I was like deciding on what song I wanted to pick for this, a lot of songs that I am in love with are interludes. A lot of my favorite songs that that resonate with me very deeply are interludes. And I think That's because I'm always wanting more, you know, like, oh, for

Maia Honeycutt  15:05

gets to the end and you're like, do it again. Do it again. I need to do it again.

Charles  15:09

Literally, like, that song is, it's probably like, more, like two minutes. But I want more from that song. I want more from butterflies. There's, um, I don't know, this is my PSA for saying more artists should do more interludes, yeah, because they're amazing.

Kelan David  15:24

It's interesting because that's that's sort of counterintuitive, because you're saying do more shorter things, yes, because you want more.

Charles  15:30

 Yes, yes,  I think I want people to do more interludes that are short because it's, it makes you want more, and it brings more people to the plate. At least for me, it does. So then, like, Yeah, bring people to the plate. Bring people. And then if you get enough people, all right, then drop a song.

Kelan David  15:47

Is this sort of like a leaving something to the imagination thing?

Charles  15:50

Yes, yes.

Kelan David  15:53

 Like, you're allowed to sort of finish it yourself,

Charles  15:55

yeah, yeah, yeah. What, what is, what is your mind go to once this song ends, or even, like, there's some interludes, there's a artist by the name of no name out of Chicago, fantastic poet, fantastic rapper as well, too. But she's got something called the Freedom interlude, and she raps the first half and then the second half is just the instrumental of that song. So then for me, I'm like, Ooh, I'm a riff off of what you said, and then,

Maia Honeycutt  16:21

oh, yeah,

Charles  16:22

let you do your imagination. You know what I mean? Right? Yeah. There's different ways you could do interludes. You can keep it short, like butterflies. You can make it longer, like buried alive, or kind of leave the instrument. There's so many different ways you could do it, but I just feel like interludes are awesome.

Charles  16:39

 So when you are doing that, when you hear that interlude, and you're and you're not listening to the rapping over it, and you're putting your in your own lyrics, do you put something in different every time, or are you going back to that, that spot on the beach and putting in the same lyrics every time?

Charles  16:55

 No, it's different every time. It's literally different. So it's funny. So I do have a song two butterflies, called yasidro, and it's,

Charles  17:03

I actually haven't, yeah, yeah.

Charles  17:05

Do you mind? Because I haven't heard it,

Charles  17:07

 you could play it.

Charles  17:07

 You mind?

Charles  17:08

Yeah, absolutely. This is young Charles, very, very young, young Charles. But before you do play that, like, I'll still listen to the beat and it'll be totally different lyrics, like, it's not yasidro at all. Okay, so it's not that song. So it I think it's just a matter of the moment. Like, if I'm stressed out that day, all right, I'm gonna put my stress to that moment, but my image is still the beach, if that makes sense.

Kelan David  17:34

 Word, so you're still sitting on the beach, no matter.

Charles  17:36

Yeah. So like, if I'm having a stressful day, all right, I'm gonna listen to this song, and I'm gonna go back to the beach because it's my happy spot, but then I'm gonna get the BS out and hopefully relieve my stress that way as well, because then I'm in my happy spot, I get to be one.

Kelan David  17:52

Yeah. And if you have, like, a really good day, is that kind of the same thing?

Charles  17:56

Same thing. It's the same thing. You know, good, crappy, kind of like, man, it doesn't matter what kind of day it is, as long as I could go back to the beach and then whatever I'm thinking, all right, like, cool. I can add those words. I just imagine myself still sitting on that beach, and it's just me rapping.

Kelan David  18:16

So, okay, so, so tell us, just give us, like, a little bit of background of what we're about to hear,

Charles  18:20

oh, so yesedro is about the East Side court. So I went to high school in Gilroy, California, and there's multiple basketball courts I played at, but the ones that really resonated with me was San Ysidro Park. And you know, it's definitely known for, you know, you know the people on the streets, you know, the hood people, if you want to call it that way. I don't know if it's that way, still to this day, it probably is, but, you know, that's just what it's known for. But, man, I've, I've gotten into fights over there. I've, Iwouldn't say, fallen in love, but I've, you know, girls that I've really admired, you know, like, a lot of moments have happened at that park. So that's basically what the song is about. Is just young me, you know, reflecting back at San Ysidro, but we call them East Side courts, is what they're basically known as. So that's what this song's about.

Charles  19:24

like doubled up with this comfort to try to stay warmed up for the possibilities, long way concave to popular circular beliefs. My volume is much denser than you can believe. Speaking geometry every year equals cash the base speed of past the height of my knowledge being square coming soon in a lady. So kiss my ass. I'm just trying to catch this train to the promised land full of luscious ways of grain and a land with respect, because I'm feeling some type of way of my mind, the land of the free, but I gotta watch my back at all times. Just wanna roll a backward back in my hood, falling with the homies in the East Side hood, couple baddies passing by. They know what's good, hoops, laundry,bro.No, freakings better find your head. I'm in a different state where someone would understand. I like reaching the pants and popping like it used to. Like window to the wall. Kanye Paul Wall driving slow, listening to goo. She all even to the locks versus being killed by Galilee. I come from the place above, behind them. You feel alone, but when you got them, you feel like you can Mission to the Moon, Mars Bars attack, as you call with a kick. This shit so fresh, this shit so clean to never yield, even with my eyes blinded by hating ass motherfucking high beams drive away in a six fold, like easy, having bitches doing back flips like they breezy, easy, breezy, beautiful. No need for Cover Girl, cuz muckle, the real world, Back in my old world, back at ya, Crump Ah, shit started at crest park up West, had the speakers in all the best of the best people from SJ Hollister, from Morgan Hill, niggas from everywhere, trying to put the feels to the skill head, Marcus Leafy, Christian Ted ass vodka. Johnny Holly, my brother Lucas, all the people that were there for me when life is more than bar even when everything was fine, all it took was a textbook, all those umbrellas, regardless of the skin, I'm black on the outside, but we are homies within and nah, this ain't that creeping the clapping, No big in the bracket. This is the left kick. Shit.

Charles  22:19

It's funny hearing young Charles is this weird. It is funny because I had a very, very different mindset at that time. You know, as you can see, get money, give bitches, shoot hoops and like, now to this day, like, I don't like calling women. Like, I don't like that, yeah, like, it hurts me now, you know. And it's just funny to, like, listen to my old self. Even when I listen to it nowadays, I'm like, wow, I had some really cool bars or really cool lines, and

Maia Honeycutt  22:48

 I really, like, a couple of those lines. I love the CoverGirl line, honestly, yeah,

Kelan David  22:52

 it does stand out.

Charles  22:54

Yeah, dude, it's this song was like, and it took me, like, five minutes to write the song. When I was writing it, I was in Hawaii, in my room, and I was like, Okay, I want to talk about something back from home. And for some reason, it just went straight to San Ysidro Park. And I was like, Okay, let's, let's talk about that. The homies would love this song.

Kelan David  23:16

 So this is, like, sort of meta, because, yeah, you're going back to a memory, about rapping about a memory

Charles  23:22

inception, baby. Yeah, literally, yeah. In in hindsight, when I think about the moment in Hawaii when I was there in that time, I didn't, I didn't think it would be my happy moment at that time, because, you know, it's just, it just happened. And I'm like, Oh, this feels great, awesome. But even I'm 31 now and I still think about that like I wasn't thinking I was gonna be still thinking,

Kelan David  23:48

No, I mean, that's something that here is like, you wish there was a way to be able to tell that these are the good old days.

Charles  23:53

Yeah, yeah. Exactly, exactly. I do go back to the song a lot. If I'm like, if I get depressed or down in the dumps about something I do go back to this song, like, into the song.

Kelan David  24:03

Do you mean this recording, like, or the instrumental?

Charles  24:07

The instrumental. Yeah, more or less. Like, I honestly don't listen. I probably listen to my own song, maybe once out of once a month. Maybe because I'm like, it pops up and I'll, like, all right, I'll listen

Kelan David  24:18

 once a month. Is a lot?

Charles  24:19

Is it?

Kelan David  24:20

Well, I'll tell you how often I listen to my own songs

Charles  24:23

really,

Kelan David  24:23

 maybe, like, once every couple of years.

Charles  24:25

Oh, no, I listen like, I'm yeah, my wife is very gets annoyed with me very quickly, because I repeat songs a lot, like, a lot, a lot. And if I like a song, like, I'll just repeat, repeat, repeat.

Maia Honeycutt  24:42

I do that Really bad.

Charles  24:43

Yeah, I'm very notorious for it, but to a point where I'm like, All right, I listen to this song on Monday, and then I'll be like, I need to take a break. And then Friday comes and I'm like, let's listen to it again all day, you know? And

Kelan David  24:57

well, I'll tell you, like, if I'm practicing to a song, you know? Obviously, then, right then you keep on doing it, doing it, doing it, doing it, and, and I get to start, get to be worried, like, am I being annoying by just, like, playing this over and over and over and over again, you know? Yeah, and, and, to Whitney's credit, like earlier on in our relationship, it was like, like, No, you don't have to worry about that. Like, just do it. Just play it. Just do it. Like you're doing your thing, and

Charles  25:21

she understands, like, obviously practice makes perfect. So like, sometimes you have to just keep doing it over and over it,

Kelan David  25:29

right? But then there are those times where, like, you're just feeling the song, and maybe those people around you're like, okay, oh boy, it's felt

Charles  25:39

we're not feeling it either we'll feel it, then

Kelan David  25:45

you don't get it.

Charles  25:45

Yeah, exactly.

Kelan David  25:48

Are you not on the beach right now? Well, I

Maia Honeycutt  25:50

 do don't turn up the volume. You're not hearing.

Kelan David  25:53

Yeah,

Charles  25:55

crank it up,

Kelan David  25:57

all right. I'm gonna get you a pair of headphones. Yeah, you need to sit down. You just forget about whatever you're doing.

Charles  26:02

You're gonna you're gonna buy yourself a ticket to Hawaii. You're gonna go sit on this beach. You gotta go these Bush Yeah, little sketch,

Kelan David  26:09

yeah. You're not gonna want to go through the bushes. Go through the bushes.

Charles  26:14

But no, like,  I definitely like, I would say for songs that make me feel good. I repeat a lot for my own songs that I make I have a hard time listening to myself. Sometimes it's kind of, I don't know how to explain it, but like, you have to listen to the song, so that way you're listening for any imperfections, and, you know, stuff like that. You want to make the song sound great. But after a while, like, I'm like, I don't want to, I don't want to listen to this.

Kelan David  26:44

Well, there's such a thing as listening to it too much, and you can find imperfections where there aren't imperfections,

Charles  26:49

when there aren't any, yeah,

Maia Honeycutt  26:50

when you well and with anything that you create yourself, I think that coming to it on the wrong day or in the wrong mood can be such a bad idea. Like, I don't write songs, but I write and, oh my god, I hate reading the stuff I write. If it's like, if I'm in the wrong mindset, and I'll start picking it apart. Like, if you can't, I don't know if you can't tap into, like, the space that you dredged it up from. It can be really weird.

Charles  27:19

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with that, for sure. Because, yeah, I'll go back and look at some songs that I've written, and I'm like, what was wrong with you that day? Like, why did you do that? But I think that's a part of the creativity too. Yeah,

Kelan David  27:33

 it is. And that's you do have to be willing to be cringy, in a sense, yeah? Like, yeah, you can't really express yourself without having those moments.

Maia Honeycutt  27:44

 Absolutely, literally, creativity is on the other side of cringe, like you have to you

Kelan David  27:49

 break through the cringe, yeah, just like pushes,

Maia Honeycutt  27:52

yeah.

Kelan David  27:57

Those bushes of cringe,

Charles  27:59

goddamn bushes stick.

Maia Honeycutt  28:03

Okay, wait, this kind of is making me come back to, though, what we were talking about with the interludes, because I actually think I really kind of understand what you're saying there with some of these gems being like, what some people would probably call like, a half formed song, I'm sure, especially if you're working with a record label or whatever, and you know, they want that two minute ish song. They want X amount of verses, whatever. I'm sure you guys understand more of that than I do. Yeah, like, I think that, I don't know. Like, I'm thinking about doji's mixtape, okay? Like,

Charles  28:44

 fantastic mixtape, right?

Maia Honeycutt  28:45

And part of her calling it a mixtape was actually specifically to get her record label off of her ass with, like, where's the single on the album? It can't be this long. It can't have this many, yeah, whatever.

Charles  29:00

It's daunting. Yeah, you don't, yeah, you don't want to be rushed, right?

Maia Honeycutt  29:04

But it's like, I love that you mentioned. Like, I want more interludes. I want more of these weird little half songs. Like, I think it's interesting that, like the people in the industry and the people trying to make money off of this don't see the value in those little glimpses, but the people do, and I feel like it might be part of that feeling of like you guys being more on the other side of music. I'm sure you could understand having a fantastic half of a song and not having anything other rest of it. Yeah, like you can't come up with a chorus for it. You can't come up with the rest of it, whatever, but this little riff that you came up with that just came to you while you were in the shower or whatever, is, like, awesome, and there's some truth in the lyrics. And so this little gem is, like, really great, but you can't pack it into, like, a marketable song or whatever.

Kelan David  29:52

But there's value, right?

Maia Honeycutt  29:53

There's so much value in it. And I think that a lot of where music is headed now is into that realm. Of the raw cuts, and, you know, some of this stuff that maybe isn't perfectly polished.

Kelan David  30:06

Well, I think that, I think that you're onto something there. And partially because maybe, like, the rise of AI making it so it's like, here is here's the song that can a computer can just make a song from beginning to end that is catchy, that has, you know, maybe even, like, meaningful lyrics, and it can make it in less time than the song can play for

Charles  30:29

exactly.

Kelan David  30:30

And so maybe there's something more human about that interlude.

Charles  30:35

Yeah,

Kelan David  30:35

that's like, you know, the song that you came up with in the shower, that's, I don't have a chorus for this, but it's something that is catchy. It's catchy and it means something to not only the listener or and the artist, right?

Charles  30:48

I'm saying so there's always, and this is my theory for everything in the world. There's always pros and cons to everything, right? So yes, I'm pro shorter stuff, but as far as hip hop goes, they're starting to make their actual songs shorter because,

Maia Honeycutt  31:06

I've noticed that,

Charles  31:07

because people's attention span is so much shorter because of reels and quick things to watch. So artists are starting to make their songs like two minutes in five seconds, two minutes 20 seconds. You know, real short, I am not for that, because that's like, not finishing a wing. Like, finish your wing. Like, finish the whole chicken. Like, don't, don't, like, half ass, it, type of thing. And with an interlude, like, for instance, buried alive, there's no chorus, there's no like, Melody, it's just him telling a story. So then it's quick, in that way of just, like, real quick, you know, just real quick interlude for you.

Kelan David  31:50

But it's complete. In a sense,

Maia Honeycutt  31:51

it feels complete.

Charles  31:52

Yes, it's complete for part of the difference, exactly compared to a regular song nowadays. And I'll listen to a song and it'll, like, have two verses, two course, choruses, and then it's done, yeah, and I'm like, yeah, yeah. It's all a preference type of thing.

Maia Honeycutt  32:10

 It's preference and it's, I don't know, I think some of it might also be that intention, you know, because I think that there is a difference between taking a song and just shortening it because people's attention spans might not be there, and taking a song and not adding anything to it because there's nothing else that needs to be added to, right? Like, that is a big difference.

Charles  32:30

Yeah, if it's already complete, yeah, it's one of those, like, don't, don't fix it if it's not broke, yeah.

Kelan David  32:36

I mean, I definitely do have songs that don't have a chorus that are maybe two and a half minutes long, and it's just because that's the whole story, that's the whole that's the whole thing. And so you don't need to have that chorus that you come back to. It doesn't need to be three and a half minutes same.

Charles  32:53

 I have a couple songs like that too, where it's just, I'll go in a studio and I'll freestyle about a story from in my past, and it's, it's a whole song, and there's no chorus, and it works perfectly. There's nothing that I need to do to it. You know, one song in particular I could think of. Shout out to my boy cheese. This have a song called Black cheese Halloween, and it's just literally about how me and my buddy cheese threw a Halloween party, and we weren't intending on doing it. We had went and picked up a keg because it was on sale for 50 bucks. We're like,

Maia Honeycutt  33:26

okay,

Charles  33:27

get it. And so we got a keg. And then I was like, Well, dude, invite your friends. It was at CSUMB. I didn't go to school there. I'm like, Cool, let's throw a party. Whatever. Next, you know, people start coming in, like, heavy and so me, I'm a businessman,

Kelan David  33:44

college students can just hear the tap.

Charles  33:50

 I hear the call. But mind you, we had started the party at nine. People weren't coming in, like, heavy until 12, so it was like hours of us just like, whoa gone. Yeah, I guess we're just gonna drink beer, me and you buddy, like, that was it. But then, like, 12 O'Clock hit, and once about like 20 people were in there, I was like, geez, I'm gonna make money right now. And I started saying, five bucks for all you could drink. As people were walking in, we walked, oh, $450

Kelan David  34:22

and was that the only time you did this?

Charles  34:24

This is the only time we did it, the only time that we did it

Kelan David  34:27

because you were onto something.

Charles  34:29

 We we could have, we could have done it again. Honestly. We should have.

Kelan David  34:33

 I would have thought like, wow, we're onto something. No, I have to stay up till midnight.

Speaker 1  34:40

You're not wrong, you're absolutely not wrong. Now that I think about it, makes me want to call him and be like, fool. Why didn't we do this? Like, again? Like, I'm not gonna do it again. Now. I'm a husband with kids. I ain't doing all that now, but Right? He should have ran that back.

Kelan David  34:55

 Well, you do live near college, like you could just,

Charles  34:58

Oh, hell no, no. He. At my knees

Maia Honeycutt  35:01

in a lifetime story, though, that's a pretty cool story,

Charles  35:04

you know, like, Yeah, I'm glad that we did it, and I think the party ended that too. So from 12 to two, we may have a

Maia Honeycutt  35:11

450 bucks in couple hours. And that's crazy.

Charles  35:13

I ran out of the keg. So then I'm reaching into his cabinet, and I'm reaching for spirits, orange juice, anything out of the refrigerator so I can serve these people, because I'm like, I already, you already paid, so I gotta, I gotta give you something. And, yeah, the party was over at two once all the drinks were done. But, I mean, it was a lot of fun, but that's one of those songs where I freestyled it and I just tell the story of that night. And it was funny because I kept trying to fit in a chorus in between, like, the story and I'm like, it just didn't work. There's no need for it, you know, if it, if it fits, it fits, just let it be

Kelan David  35:49

totally Yeah.

Maia Honeycutt  35:50

Drop the formula of, like, what the song should be exactly.

Charles  35:54

Yeah, it shouldn't. I don't know if you get caught up in that, but, like, when I write a song, I'm always like, All right, verse one, course, verse two, hook or, you know,

Kelan David  36:02

sure, yeah, yeah, definitely. And that's something like the song I was talking about. Red leaf is the guitar never even changes old arms, the same season, the same riff through the entire song, and it doesn't have the chorus, and it just tells a story beginning to end. And that's it. So it's it, yeah. But there was a part of me that was like, where's the chorus, where's the bridge, where's the Yeah, yeah.

Charles  36:25

And you want to fit it in there, but then the more you try to force it, like your heart's like, no, that's not it,

Kelan David  36:31

right, yeah?

Maia Honeycutt  36:32

And I love that you're going with your heart, right?

Kelan David  36:34

Yeah. And sort of at the end of the day, I mean, as as an artist, like, that's sort of what you do have to do, because, again, especially in today's world where a robot can make the song the way that you're trying to you shouldn't even try to do that, yeah, because a robot, a few years from now, a robot is going to be able to do it better than you can, hands down. And so you should just do it the way that you feel like you want to do it exactly.

Maia Honeycutt  36:57

That's what it needs. Is the human intuition to be like, No, this is going to be weird and different.

Charles  37:03

Why not?

Kelan David  37:04

Yeah, exactly.

Maia Honeycutt  37:05

Honestly, I just like props to you guys, because that makes me really happy that you went with that so that you have these, like songs, instead of them sitting in a graveyard. Because sometimes I think about how many songs are probably sitting in this world not being listened to because they're weirdly unfinished or whatever.

Charles  37:24

 Take the props back then, because I got a whole,

Kelan David  37:27

I got a whole same thing.

Charles  37:29

Lord, I got a whole bone yard.

Kelan David  37:32

Ask my dad.

Kelan David  37:36

He reigns over the cemetery of my song, and he is, he is not,

Kelan David  37:42

I second that he is a very unwilling Cryptkeeper.

Maia Honeycutt  37:46

 Oh, wow.

Charles  37:47

Of my cemetery, of half written songs.

Maia Honeycutt  37:51

That's the thing too, though that's the thing too. I mean, if your medium was paint, you would have a million canvases that have 18 paintings painted over underneath your painting that you ended up with like that is, you know, part of it, yeah? So, yeah, no, there's probably a huge difference. I'm sure you can feel it, the difference between a finished song that maybe is weird and doesn't fit the formula, and a song that is just like in this realm of what's happening here, and it's not anywhere near finished,

Charles  38:18

yeah, I think, and I have both where I produce a lot of songs and write a lot of songs. Like, if I were to go through my notes right now, I probably have a lot of like, lyrics that I'm just like, I just wrote it and didn't think nothing of it. But then, for instance, my former band, wave 11, we have a song called Love Letter, and it was just Lee had started playing these piano chords, and I was like, okay, and I'm looking through my notes. Through my nose. I was like, Oh, this song fits perfect. I didn't even write and it just

Kelan David  38:46

that's exactly what I was just gonna say, is that there are a lot of times where I'll whatever, wake up in the middle of the night and I have something in my head, and I'll write it down, and I'll roll over and record into my phone. It'll be this, whatever, 22nd something, and then three years later, same thing happens. And I'm like, Yeah, this goes with that thing that I wrote three years ago in the middle of the night.

Speaker 1  39:13

Oh, man, that is literally it right there. Yeah, it could be years, it could be days, but you'll write, you'll come back and be like, I'm so glad I wrote this down, right?

Maia Honeycutt  39:21

Wow.

Kelan David  39:22

Like this actually goes together. This fits like, this is the chorus. This is the chorus,

Maia Honeycutt  39:26

wow.

Charles  39:27

And I love those moments. I honestly strive for those moments a lot. That's why I tell myself I need to write every day, even if it's like, hogwash, if I feel like it's nothing to me, right? In the next years, it could be something gold, you know what I mean. So it's, man, I'm glad someone else knows that feeling like, it feels so good, oh, feels so good.

Maia Honeycutt  39:48

That's crazy.

Kelan David  39:49

Yeah, it's rare for me to have lyrics without music. So, like, like, I always pair lyrics with Melody.

Charles  39:57

 Oh, gotcha.

Kelan David  39:58

Like, at, yeah. So, like, a very. Very, very rarely will have a set of lyrics that I want to try and fit into something. Yeah, it's always paired with a melody in my head.

Charles  40:07

 Nice. So do you usually come up with the lyrics first or the melody?

Kelan David  40:11

It's simultaneously almost always

Charles  40:13

really

Maia Honeycutt  40:14

that's really fascinating,

Charles  40:16

that is really cool, honestly,

Kelan David  40:18

 at least initially. So like an initial line in a song, an initial verse and a song will be simultaneous. And then, in order to keep going with a song, you know, I'll fit

Maia Honeycutt  40:27

you might lyrics, lyrics

Kelan David  40:29

to the melody, right?

Charles  40:31

 So, so in a matter of like, when you do have that melody and lyrics together, is it usually like a chorus, or could it be a verse or a hook?

Kelan David  40:40

 It could be the first two seconds of a song. I mean, it could be any have that melody, yeah, anything like cool. So, for instance, the song that I sang the other night at cruise control with you, yeah, yeah. Are we alone? That song is like a four minute song or something. And there was very little of that song that I didn't write immediately, like, with guitar, vocal, Melody and words, yeah, basically simultaneously,

Charles  41:08

 you had it all together.

Kelan David  41:08

 I had it all together and basic at like, three in the morning, wow, I just woke up and had it so cool in my head, so which basically means I didn't write it. It just came to me. Yeah,

Maia Honeycutt  41:19

 you channeled it, yeah.

Kelan David  41:20

 Like, channeled it

Maia Honeycutt  41:20

like it was out there in the ether somewhere, floating around,

Kelan David  41:24

 yeah, and then I had this weird, bizarre dream about Keanu Reeves. And then I woke up and I and I had the song in my head.

Charles  41:29

Wait, have you told me this story before? I think, actually, yeah, now that you're saying, like,

Kelan David  41:33

and the song has nothing to do with Keanu Reeves, but,

Maia Honeycutt  41:36

but gave it to you.

Kelan David  41:37

He gave it to me.

Maia Honeycutt  41:41

He would do that.

Kelan David  41:45

Thanks. Keanu, happy birthday.

Speaker 1  41:49

That's so cool. I honestly have never, I shouldn't say never, but I haven't heard it in that way of like you come up with the melody and the lyrics at the same time. It's usually like one or the other for me. So that's really so I would say more or less, like, if I come up with, like, a melody, it's more of, like the chorus or a hook,

Maia Honeycutt  42:09

 like you might have, like the and then you realize, like, okay, that's the catchy part.

Charles  42:14

 That's the melody that's to fit exactly, okay. That's usually how I do it. And then from there, then I can write the verses and all that jazz, but not like together. So that's a really cool power, honestly, like

Maia Honeycutt  42:25

cool power,

Kelan David  42:26

yeah, well, you know, I had to channel all this anxiety and angst somewhere,

Charles  42:33

 somewhere, right? Channel it real quick. No, I think it's, I think it's really cool listening to, I don't know just different artists their progress of how to make a song, because I have many different different ways of how I make a song,

Maia Honeycutt  42:48

 dude, this is great, and I love that, because you guys are both artists. We talked a lot about the pro because I I love that shit. I don't make music, but I love talking about the process of it. I do.

Charles  43:12

I know that's that's always the first thing when people talk to me. Oh so charming. I'm not charming. I'm just funny.

Maia Honeycutt  43:22

This isn't for you. Actually, cool. I'm not trying to charm you.

Charles  43:31

My comedic abilities make it charming

Kelan David  43:34

 whatever, because you because, like, you ask people their names. That's like, something I don't do. You know, like, we go to, like, a restaurant, like, on,

Charles  43:40

 oh yeah,

Kelan David  43:41

you're like, like, what's your name again, Austin, thank you so much for being here today and waiting on us. Really appreciate that. So much. Are you from here? Are you

Charles  43:49

 That's me, that is me,

Maia Honeycutt  43:51

 textbook charming. That is me.

Kelan David  43:52

 That is textbook charming. You know what I do? I'll have a water.

Charles  43:57

Give me that water, bitch. I'm the double.

Kelan David  44:06

Thanks for tuning in to that takes me back broadcasting from 970 West studio in beautiful Grand Junction, Colorado.

Maia Honeycutt  44:15

Today's episode was recorded, produced and edited by your hosts, Kellen David and Maia sage. Did you know that there's a lot of our conversation that doesn't make the final episode? If you want to hear full uncut interviews, you can join our community on Patreon. Our website is thattakesmeback.org where you can find all of our episodes as well as a playlist of the songs we've had on the show. Feel free to email connect at that takes me back.org. We'd love to hear from you. If you enjoyed listening, please share it with a friend.